with that, i'm going to take a break, because i don't feel the discussion is progressing past PR sound bites right now

we can't make binary builds if we don't have access to the source code

i'll also point out that redhat forks are based on fedora, which does provide source code, and the whole drama was because redhat started cutting down on access to their binary builds, a bit like what you're doing

but if i remember correctly, redhat still publishes its source code

but i might be wrong on that

fedora, in any case, is still a free and healthy upstream, now it's not clear what's up with puppet anymore

anarcat: yes, you do need the free developer subscription to the SRPMs or you need to extract it from the CentOS Stream git repos, but it's available

right

so even RedHat didn't go as far as Perforce there

and that move led to multiple forks

and Fedora is still considered the proper upstream for development, though CentOS Stream is forked from Fedora at regular intervals and is now the proper upstream to RHEL

anarcat: correct

CentOS Stream didn't have an equivalent before; you just had to trust Red Hat to at some point fix your issues in RHEL and then they'd flow into rebuilt distros

so I certainly think it's annoying not to have a 1:1 freely available RHEL equivalent, from a developer perspective your have a lot more options than you used to

disclaimer: Red Hat employee, some opinions are my own

internally it was said that a lot was driven to make it easier for people to contribute to the development of RHEL

I would not call Rocky and Alma forks, since they very pointedly do NOT diverge from the upstream.

just a thought: we run acceptance tests and install Puppet packages there; how are we going to deal with them being closed or limited to 25 nodes?

I suspect we have repos where a single PR spins up 25 "nodes"

yes

and for Foreman we use the Puppet agent for our installer, so that will break our CI pipelines

even if all we did was make it so that there wasn't a 25 node limit, this wouldn't be that bad. also, if I have to interactively EULA in the package, it's no longer a package

I run my own acceptance tests using the Gem anyway :-p

note the gems like the packages won't be release at this point by Puppet

so basically the community has to do 90% of a fork of puppet to use it anyways

so that pretty much mandates the PDK?

that just killed our whole toolchain

our being Vox Pupuli

what? not even publishing gems?

yes