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# htmx-general
  • g
    everyone is ascribing so much bad faith to harris et al that i don't think they deserve to be accused of. the truth is that no form of programming is actually intuitive, and if you're warmed up to the js world, spas may well be simpler in your eye. rich thinks that the issues will be solved by making frameworks better. we want to bring html to a level where frameworks are not needed. we are both motivated almost entirely by a desire to make web apps and web dev better, and should not be looking at this like market competition.
  • g
    in my view (carson might disagree) the response was not aimed at Rich, but people who might watch his talk and (wrongly) come to believe that hypermedia-first apps are useless and a bottomless pit of UI bugs (all GUIs are).
  • m
    agreed, I hope my article didn't come across as accusing him of bad faith. We (he and I) have genuinely different engineering styles and values, and i don't think we should shy away from that fact. Some people are touchy on the internet, (most people are touchy sometimes) but we are allowed to have opinions too.
  • g
    in a space where merely talking to someone gives them power, we are forced to sort out sincere disagreement from disparaging screed before even reading anything, and depending on the circles you hang out in, you may have cause to lean towards one side of that decision.
  • g
    the truth is that as this is just a framework war, there are few consequences to assuming good faith.
  • u
    I'm just so worn out to the bone from the JS zeitgeist.
  • u
    That's what pushed me towards becoming a seeker again
  • a
    Now that is something worth NFTing 😁
  • g
    it is calling to you
  • u
    Curiosity is what killed the cat, but satisfaction is what brought him back....
  • r
    meh, very diplomatic and easy to write this all off as a framework war, but htmx is a simplification by adding it. Svelte, react, whatever, are iterative improvements on problematic levels of complication, which is why the SPA vs MPA discussion keeps coming up. htmx makes SPA option a legitimate option that isn't marred down in complexity.
  • r
    htmx lets you go SPA without taking over the entire project.
  • g
    that's an argument made by literally every framework 🙂
  • g
    remember when vue was the "incremental" framework?
  • g
    and now vue-petite exists 🙃
  • a
    Excuse me I'll be right back * forks htmx * * renames the fork to svelte-htmx * * NFTs it *
  • r
    I'm gonna start calling react, svelte, etc "classic SPA frameworks" and htmx as a "new SPA framework" that doesn't lock you in.
  • r
    "new SPA" = HN and reddit will like it.
  • m
    😆
  • g
    bit late for that i think :/
  • m
    There is a difference between the hypermedia and the JSON/RPC approach. Both have strengths and weaknesses. I am all for being fair-minded, but also being firm on this point.
  • m
    SPA 3.0
  • m
    spakle - Single Page Applications Keepin' it Light with hypermEdia
  • m
  • a
    spackle - Single Page Applications Carefully Keepin' it Light with hypermEdia
  • g
    the three kinds of interactivity -- the sprinkle, the island, the router
  • g
    no i will not elaborate
  • r
    Personally I think it was brave as hell to re-consider the hypermedia all the way down approach. It's potentially this huge simplification just sitting there. IMHO JSON was successful because libraries were so much better, newer, faster, at the time. A product of the era.
  • r
    JSON superiority is not necessarily a true thing moving forward.
  • m
    [1] - it was revealed to me in a dream
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