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# htmx-general
  • m
    let's take a look at the code together...
  • m
    looks like it!
  • l
    I listened to the JS Party and the Talk Python episodes and I'm very compelled by htmx and the ideas behind it. I love the LoB, Complexity Budget, OWL, and "capitalize on existing skills" concepts. It's cool that something can be so thoughtful and so simple at the same time.
  • l
    I am an old-timey web dev but have been using Vue quite a bit recently. You're dead on about the idea of SFCs being great but coming at a cost. Vue is fun to use, but a nightmare to debug and maintain. It's not a great sign when you have to rely on a bug tracking service to tell you what's happening "in the wild". A big footgun for me has been the "store". When has maintaining data in 2 places ever really worked. So much code gets written to make sure front end and back end state stay in sync. God forbid somebody ever refreshed or bookmarked a page.
  • l
    I'm curious to know if you've come across any situations where somebody migrated a site from a state-driven lib to htmx and if so, what some of the trade-offs were.
  • l
    and also, how the hell do you have time to do all this? teaching, working at a startup, html, hyperscript, intercooler. You must have figured out a way to duplicate yourself
  • s
    Any LISP fans here? Made a demo with htmx and Common Lisp using Starwars API Demo: https://ccl-demo-raja.herokuapp.com Code: https://github.com/rajasegar/ccl-demo-raja Look at this beautiful code
    Copy code
    lisp
(defmacro search-box ((&key url))
  `(cl-who:htm
    (:div
     :class "search-wrapper"
     (:label :for "search-box" "Search:")
     (:div
      :class "search-box"
      (:input
       :id "search-box"
       :name "search"
       :class "search-field"
       :type "text"
       :hx-post, url 
       :hx-trigger "keyup changed delay:500ms"
       :hx-target "#search-results"
       :hx-indicator ".htmx-indicator")))
    (:div :id "loading-search" :class "htmx-indicator" "Loading...")))
  • m
    The major trade off that I see is that the hypermedia approach often works better with less stateful UI, so if you just try a straight port of a heavily stateful UI (lots and lots of modals, or needly inter-input state dependencies) it can be a bit painful. Ideally you get into the swing of thinking-in-hypermedia and are willing to compromise an exact 1-for-1 port to make things more stateless. And if client-side state is just crucial for parts of your app, maybe those parts don't get ported, but other stuff (e.g. my "setting page" example) can be.
  • m
    HTML On Whatever you'd Like... no matter how insane 🙂
  • m
    I've gotten lucky to get some great contributors to help on both projects, but there are times when I get a bit tired, I have to admit. It helps that htmx and intercooler weren't and aren't very churny, and that nobody uses hyperscript 🙂
  • l
    Just figured out my problem. I was replacing my element that had the hx-trigger on it so when I dispatched the event, there was nothing there listening for it. I put the element outside of the 'replacement zone' and now all working. Thanks for the help!
  • m
    fantastic
  • m
    it gets easier after you work w/ it for a bit!
  • l
    Yes, this tool is amazing. Sooo much coding saved. Thank you Thank you Thank you
  • l
    @mysterious-toddler-20573 thanks for answering my q's. Kind of an oddball thought...but I am wondering if htmx appeals so much to me because I am a "traditional" web dev. Like, I wonder if there's a age component to tool choices. > 35 leans towards back-end and < 35 leans towards front-end. I'm 47 😛
  • l
    Hi all. Has anyone tried to use the websocket (via hx-ws) with socket.io servers?
  • l
    Having said that, there does seem to be a trend in the JS community towards "we need to ship less javascript" lately.
  • l
    Or have an example they could point to?
  • m
    age probably has some correlation, but I think that's largely because younger developers really haven't been taught or thought about what hypermedia programming means. Really, us older folks didn't think too much about it either, which is probably part of the problem: we never took it seriously and defended it when the move to RPC-over-JSON took off.
  • m
    welcome @User !
  • l
    Thanks a bunch @User
  • m
    OK, I am definitely not the websockets expert. I keep pretending @User is, but he's more of the SSE person.
  • l
    @User I enjoy your podcast, btw. have for quite some time!
  • l
    Thank you @User, much appreciated.
  • l
    @User one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is the htmx-alpine use case. In what situation would a dev using htmx want to bring in alpine?
  • u
    Less JS doesn't mean no-JS. Some things are easier on the client side. Showing and hiding stuff, small validations, "components" (datepickers, autocomplete fields, etc.).
  • m
    toggling a class on a div when you click a button
  • m
    canonical example
  • l
    ok. so is alpine the favored tool because it's consistent with the LoB principle?
  • m
    it's arguably a violation of Hypertext As The Engine Of Application State but we are pragmatic here at castle htmx
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