The cost of education appears to be a top concern across the board. What can we do?

In Chicago, the kehilla fund raises money from the entire community and gives it to all the k-8 schools to cover some costs. It helps, but tuition is still a big concern. We also have a state tax break, you can give money for private school scholarships and pick the school and get a 75% credit on your state taxes. That helps a lot as well. With it, some families get significant scholarships

There are significant fundamental issues around how our schools are run and financed. I don’t see how this forum can change any of that.

There are many people here with varying levels of influence at many of our schools, some with a lot of influence... If good ideas are to be had, and we have them, and we work through possible problems together, we can propose them to the right people.

Maybe I'm just being negative, but I don't think there is a solution. People have too many kids that they want to educate and not enough money to do so. The only answer would be getting wealthy people to subsidize it. I would start with a first principals analysis. What is the bare minimum it would take to run a school with X number of children where each class has Y number of kids. Account for expenses that have economies of scale and those that don't. Then its just a simple math problem. Education cost per child can not be less than $Z per child.

What about some sort of endowment fund to help subsidize it? Like what Torah Umesorah got together (or tried to get together?) to help raise teachers' salaries

I'm a big advocate for schools becoming a bit more transparent as to how much tuition really is. The way it is now you have mothers not even trying to find work because they think they'll come out behind after they lose their tuition scholarships.

I think transparency is a big part of the problem, we are implicitly trusting the board of each school, but we don’t actually know what goes on behind the scenes, how the money is raised or spent, etc. A few years ago I worked on a plan which would provide matching scholarships for schools in return for governance reforms. Part of that was reserving a board seat for a parental body representative, another one for the teachers and a third for the community at large. It went no where unfortunately.

https://18forty.org/podcast/the-cost-of-jewish-education/ 1840 podcast this week is about the cost of education. Maury Litwack speaks about how endowment of billions of dollars is exceedingly difficult and the focus on getting education money from the government (my note: this will likely be predominantly for lower income families (if vouchers) or money for "fringes" that might help the schools but doesn't reduce the cost of tuition (security guards etc.) But maybe I am overly skeptical)

In my kids' school, the board consists primarily of parents of kids in the school. Possibly all - every name that comes to mind is a school parent.

@nutritious-raincoat-28876 same, but afaik it's mostly wealthy parents or those with other types of "influence." How about yours? And what would it take to get someone who might represent other points of view on there?

Is the general consensus that schools are charging too much tuition generally, cuz I would doubt that. Running a school is expensive and it's hard to pay the right amount for a large family is the issue I think. It'll be that way unless it's really really cheap or free, which is unlikely. Not sure how opening the books would help?

@bumpy-minister-26192 I think the problem is that it's hard for people to pay this much tuition, which leads to some people discussing that the schools are charging too much because they're not using the money well. Being transparent would either expose this as true, or expose it as false so at least we could move past that conversation and focus on other aspects of the issue

Many RW schools classify as churches and don't have to file a 990

Speaking only for my kids' school, last year we ran a tuition projection and found that if everyone paid full tuition, it would almost exactly cover the budget. Of course, there's a margin of error, but roughly speaking, all fundraising is to cover scholarships and one-time costs, like a building campaign.

re: 990s - I just checked my community and only one school isn’t classified as a church and files IRS forms annually

I think transparency is a big part of the problem, we are implicitly trusting the board of each school, but we don’t actually know what goes on behind the scenes, how the money is raised or spent, etc. @rich-insurance-32675

Strongly agree, which is why I think we CAN do something. We all agree that we can only optimize the situation if there is transparency. Do I think schools are charging too much tuition? No I don’t. Do I think the books need to be open and transparent for people to be confident and happy with the amount they are paying? Yes. Do I think transparency will help people not only want to donate more but also put in their time and energy when they can openly honestly see what is happening? Yes.

I think the problem is that it’s hard for people to pay this much tuition, which leads to some people discussing that the schools are charging too much because they’re not using the money well. Being transparent would either expose this as true, or expose it as false so at least we could move past that conversation and focus on other aspects of the issue @steep-dog-55906

This is my belief 💯 Once we are transparent we can dispel the rumors as true or false and as a community we can actual talk about REAL solutions to the problems. So, to the question of what we can do to make this change… Here are some of my thoughts. 1. Change the attitude. By all of us discussing the importance of transparency we can help shape the narrative. For example, life insurance wasn’t cool, now its obvious for most people. If non profit transparency was the same way, schools would have a hard time getting away with this. 2. Put your money where your mouth is. I was a campaign matcher for multiple schools this year and I made it very clear that if they wanted me to continue next year that I expected transparency or the relationship would not continue. 3. Spread financial literacy. The majority of my clients are teachers. The more we spread this forum to the educators in our community the more than can know how to advocate for themselves. Teachers being well versed in what the world expects their employers to give them (like teachers getting 403b match, health insurance, etc - Right now its okay if all of our school’s health insurance plan is a giving a class on how to sign up for medicaid). If people emotionally understand that this is unacceptable because we are talking about all of this opened and honestly, things will have to change

@mysterious-tomato-10057 re your transparency ask in order to be a matching donor next year: what was the reaction? And are they willing to be transparent to everyone, and not just large donors?

I have had only positive reactions with a genuine concern for how we are going to execute it, and I am trying my best to help them execute. I am hoping at the very least that they are transparent to large donors and then I can make the request for the following year to be for everyone, but I am going to aim for even the first year to be for everyone. I have not YET had push back in general on the idea of being transparent to everyone. The issue is just practically how to get it done RIGHT.

@nutritious-raincoat-28876 it's great to hear that it's balanced that way. But that doesn't sound encouraging from the families perspective - meaning all that tuition does sound necessary :) I do wonder sometimes about building funds and fundraisers, and what the finances of school would look without those...

@steep-dog-55906 @nutritious-raincoat-28876 My hypothesis is that we probably need to raise tuition, not lower it, after we see the transparency. But we will be able to make each dollar stretch a lot farther when we can work as a community to optimize the expenses. For example, the school might be paying $300 a month for someone to manage the website and run servers or whatever when someone might be doing it for free if they knew they could help.

@mysterious-tomato-10057 very different use cases. You helping people here is an end goal, and publishing financial is yet another helpful project that use can use that first one as input to. But if it doesn't work out, the first step is good enough. For schools, we're saying transparency is important. If I was told by a school "We agree transparency is important so we're opening up our numbers to our biggest donors, not the rest of you who are concerned about tuition costs" I would say the goal of transparency was NOT accomplished.

I agree the goal of transparency would not have been accomplished. Which is why there would be a follow on. But its not backwards.

It's a step forward for the overall health of the system, I agree. But as someone looking for transparency it feels backwards unless I know it's in preparation for a step forward.

I’ll agree with that.

@mysterious-tomato-10057 I was also going to say that schools that seem more on top of and transparent with their finances are typically more expensive schools. How much is everyone really thinking tuition could go down once schools are transparent. Not enough to make a significant difference in ppl's finances if they have multiple children in school.

I don’t think anyone in this thread thinks tuition will go down with transparency… I personally think you’ll get more donors involved and more families involved in improving the school and optimizing spend. Also, you’ll earn trust which is VERY valuable.

There are already a lot of donors for schools, the need is just very great.

a lot of donors don’t give because they feel there is mismanagement and no transparency optimized spend would lower the “very great need” also we would all feel better in general about paying so much tuition if we understood how alll this money was getting spent…

Wouldn't the discussion on the importance of Jewish education and the need for funds be more impactful? Are there donors not giving bc they feel the need is not important or bc they're scared of mismanagement. I mean how bad could it be already 🤷🏼

Theoretically, I completely agree with transparency. Some legitimate concerns with a school publishing its budget: 1. Private salary information of faculty/staff, many of whom are personal friends of parents. 2. Most people are not very financially literate (citation: every other discussion on this slack 😜). Parents annoyed about "high" tuition may find something they object to in the budget and make unhelpful "noise." These are not necessarily insurmountable issues, but having a board that consists of parents with expertise in these areas could be enough trust without requiring total transparency. Preparing a "dumbed-down" budget summary could work, but takes time and effort. To take the argument to the extreme, should every scholarship decision be completely transparent? Obviously no. General guidelines, perhaps. But there needs to be some element of trust in the tuition committee.

I don’t think anyone is arguing for complete transparency. We didn’t define transparency for this discussion but I think we clearly don’t mean the publishing of private information like each employees singular salary. #strawman

My anecdotal experience is that many parents assume that full tuition is padded to include scholarships for those who receive reductions. In one community I was even told (by someone who would know, but I didn't have direct verification) that the school itself acknowledged what the "actual" target value of tuition was, which was about 2k less than "full" tuition. So opening the books could also show if full tuition is padded to make up for those who are paying less (and is basically mandated tzedaka) or if it is the actual cost of your child's education.

I have the same anecdotal evidence as @witty-engineer-80805. When we switched from reduced tuition to full, we were told by our Rav we could pay the difference with maaser because of this reasoning.

I'm not sure why people knowing salaries is so scary to people. Especially in an institution that is relying on charity. As an aside, public salaries are usually considered beneficial for employees, not detrimental.

@curved-toothbrush-84425 I 100% agree, but we are a long way away from our community being okay with that. Yes, everyone would have higher salaries if we were transparent about who was paid what, but I’ll never be able to convince anyone of making that change until we make a lot of other community changes first.

At least in NY and NJ, probably other states as well, public school teacher's salaries are public information. It's not going to fly in frum schools. (especially since salary is often influenced by perceived need (married vs. single / # of kids / man vs. women ) rather than flat payscales.

@bright-restaurant-33087 True but we can dream!

You have to keep in mind that in some schools a Rebbe works more days a week and longer hours per day than a morah in a girls' school. In my community they also often work extra weeks teaching before and after the girls' school schedule, with fewer vacation days. The term "teacher" isn't always apples to apples.

I’m talking about when it IS apples to apples

How wrong is it? When at the end of the day these are institutions that are significantly funded by tzedaka, does it not make sense when paying with tzedaka money to pay less if the need is less? (This is a devil's advocate question, I'm not actually sure how I feel about it)

this has changed drastically in the last couple of years

@acceptable-angle-23240 very true.

I don’t think anyone is arguing for complete transparency. We didn’t define transparency for this discussion but I think we clearly don’t mean the publishing of private information like each employees singular salary. #strawman (edited)

@mysterious-tomato-10057 Even if employees' individual salaries are not delineated, since most Rebbeim are presumably earning approximately the same, a total tells a similar story. I don't think this is a strawman—transparency has its own issues and may not be the right solution. I think the solution may possibly need more "trusted representation" than transparency. Most people (excluding the biased sample of people on this Slack) have no interest in going through a budget and wouldn't know what to make of it anyway. Based on the later comments, even a simple statement like "full tuition does not cover other families' scholarships" from trusted representation can go a long way.

I have a child with 7 kids in their grade, and another kid in a class of 23. The tuition was not adjusted based on the number of children in the class this year. The argument can easily be made that the larger classes tuition is covering the smaller class.

How wrong is it? When at the end of the day these are institutions that are significantly funded by tzedaka, does it not make sense when paying with tzedaka money to pay less if the need is less? (This is a devil's advocate question, I'm not actually sure how I feel about it)

@witty-engineer-80805 that's a separate question, but it doesn't lend itself to transparency

@acceptable-angle-23240 does the 23 kid class have more assistants (or whatever)?

@nutritious-raincoat-28876 yes, there is an assistant. nevertheless...

Yup, economies of scale. Same for larger schools. And less individual attention.

@bright-restaurant-33087

that's a separate question

I was just responding to the separate point that was raised by someone else.

@nutritious-raincoat-28876 are you playing devil's advocate or do you really think more transparency would be a net negative here? As in, yes, I too can appreciate the nuance of issues being created with increased transparency. But if you were on a board and you had to make a final call, which at the end of the day doesn't let you appreciate that nuance, would you vote for or against increasing the transparency of the finances of the institution? In other words, and I promise you won't hurt my feelings, do you think my efforts to increase school transparency would be better placed elsewhere?

@mysterious-tomato-10057 sorry, I will try to clarify my point. Summary: The net benefit to society as a function of transparency is non-linear, where zero transparency and total transparency are bad, and the optimal transparency lies somewhere in the middle. So to answer your first question, it depends where we are on the curve, although I imagine most schools are currently at a point on the curve where more transparency is better. So in answer to your second question, I think there is a lot of benefit for the "average" school to increase transparency. Sorry if it came out any other way 😄 I think an appropriate analogy is public companies' required financial reporting (GAAP: Generally Accepted Accounting Principles). For anyone learning financial accounting, this is the very important motivation for its existence, and the driving factor behind most of the rules. It should (imho) be the first thing any financial accounting student learns (yeah, I put my money where my mouth is ;-D) If companies report nothing, we have extreme information asymmetry, and financial markets fall apart (The Market for Lemons—Akerlof 1970). But if companies report everything, there are significant costs, e.g. loss of competitive advantage, cost of aggregating, verifying, and reporting, etc. The sweet spot is in the middle and nuanced, hence the huge body of GAAP regulations. Not exactly the same logic for schools, but similar in concept.

Okay so we are in agreement. I also think total transparency is bad. We agree the derivative of the curve is still positive. Iyh soon we will have a thread about how our schools are far too transparent and we can work together to start fixing that 😂

As part of our abandoned plan, we considered asking schools to voluntary file 990s even if they are registered as churches to establish some of that transparency. Another possibility was releasing audited financial statements, but ones that are summary and not detailed enough to identify individuals.

Why did your plan fail? I'm wondering if I'll hit the same roadblock.

Lack of interest, people saying it won’t work, lack of funding, etc

Given what's being said, I think the biggest benefit from a path of low(er) resistance would be a trusted board or "auditor." Less resistance from the top (no need to fear exposing private details) and more benefit to the parents (minimal investment to understand).

What makes you come to that conclusion? I'm not personally facing any resistance yet. Every mosid seems respective to the idea of increased transparency.

Based on what @rich-insurance-32675 said and my gut. But if everyone you speak to is on board, that's great!

I guess I'll report back when my overly optimistic attitude comes to a crescendo or collapse 🤣