there's no such thing. the ideal state isn't 'conditionless' it's 'isolating your conditions, as self-contained self-describing units'.

Just an update to my own question... The ajax call is actually made but it's not updating the DOM 🤔

Is the ajax response HTML? did you try running the same code directly in the browser console?

Thanks so much for replying. The brief idea is that I have bundle creator and a list of products which a user selects from. When a user selects a product it posts the product id to bundle/add and removes via bundle/remove. I keep it simple by returning the entire bundle and swapping it on the page for both actions. This all works fine but if a user visits a product details page i.e. products/3233 and then removes a product from the bundle then hits the back button the old bundle details still show until a manual refresh. The HTML response is correct and the console shows it works. The problem is that the HTML returned from the ajax() call isn't being swapped.

Try

window.addEventListener("htmx:historyRestore", () => setTimeout( () => htmx.ajax("GET", "/bundle", "#bundle")), false)

I could kiss you haha. That solved it.

I know nobody asked for my thoughts but I'm going to give it anyway... Web development has got out of hand in the last 5 or so years. Nothing is better for the end user and the developer experience is far too complex these days but it doesn't have to be this way. I've been experimenting with Elixir/Phoenix LiveView recently because they promised the no JS complexity I was after but really it just adds to the complexity by using websockets. I still love the Elixir language but I guarantee the community focusing on LiveView will 100% be the death of it. Requiring JS and not supporting cookies breaks everything we know and love about the web. HTMX is the first new thing regarding web dev in a long time I'm actually impressed with. It's simple, has a small API and is focused in what it does. I thought it was me getting old when I looked around and hated everything I was seeing but theres a perfect tweet (https://twitter.com/htmx_org/status/1370003146215288835) that made me feel like it's all ok.

\> when a new technology promises to simplify web development by using a bunch of complex new technology

But then again, hyperscript... so...

In what way does it not support cookies?

In a very annoying way but it's a websocket limitation. It reads them on initialisation but that is literally it. The way websocket/LiveView based apps expect you to store state is via LocalStorage which is only available if you're using JavaScript. Again, I'm just getting older and grumpier but I'm still a believer in graceful degradation and a good old cookie sent in the http headers still works.

You're crazy in a good way. I'll have to give hyperscript a try.

Not yet!

websocket/liveview apps expect you to store state -on the socket assigns-. the state is supposed to be on the server, not on the client.

cookies in http headers still work for the page loads. if you have cookies, they should come from the initial http request, not websocket connections

but hypertext is the engine of application state

🙂

it still is in this paradigm

it's just that user input and traditionally 'client side state' is transferred in real time to the server, which does its computation and sends the updated html back across the socket

@User also... htmx requires javascript as well. there's no magic sauce that allows us to turn off javascript and still have the modern web.

Good evening everyone. I am looking for an example of htmx in conjunction with nunjacks. Better asked, how must the JSON look like and how or where must the template be defined? For me this is unfortunately not quite conclusive from the instructions.

Yes but so far I've only been using it for the elements that would otherwise already make a http request like forms or on elements to slightly enhance them. I use htmx to make the request and swap fully rendered html elements with the response. My site totally works with JS disabled but it just a worse experience.

sure, but you can do that same thing with liveview.

liveview pages are server side rendered and will still render the page completely on initial load. with javascript disabled, you just dont' get the live data bits.

This is where I'm out. I don't want server side state for things which should be client side. The main reason is that it's basically a persistent cache of data that has to be manually deleted. If it lives on the client I don't have to do any purging.

then you don't want htmx either, because there's no such thing as 'client side state' in htmx

🙂

easy gents

Oh there certainly is. Cookies, cookies, cookies. Cookies for this cookies for that.

the two things share the exact same core ideal, which is hateoas