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# htmx-general
  • a
    @gorgeous-airport-54386 But isn’t there significant client code that isn’t generated on the server that’s using CSS for it’s presentation that the server now has to “match” with shared CSS?
  • e
    yes
  • g
    Usually the whole page, from 
    <!doctype html>
    all the way through, is generated server-side
  • e
    you write code that generates the expected HTML on the server not the client
  • e
    i.e. no "front end" team working segregated from a "back end" team and talking to each other through JSON messages
  • r
    In architecture that htmx promotes, HTML templates, CSS stylesheets and JS scripts are all part of one application, and it's driven by the server
  • m
    out of the typescript frying pan, and into the RESTful fire... 🍳 ➡️ 🔥
  • a
    OK, I need to think about this. I had imagined a client with a list that the server would then fill with elements. The list and it’s style, position, etc. are determined by the client.
  • m
    There are a lot of essays here: https://htmx.org/essays/
  • e
    a lot of good essays, I may add
  • s
    I think for a large team using htmx you will have 'frontend' developrs, but they will simply work on styling things on the presentation layer of the codebase, jsut because the code ix executed on a server, and sweapped in with htmx, doesn't really change anything.
  • a
    OK, thanks for the rapid responses. I’ll go think for a while and take a look at the essays. It’s still a bit fuzzy to me.
  • m
  • m
    also you can read our book: https://hypermedia.systems
  • s
    I have no problem with a frontend dev working on a abckend template.
  • s
    in the end its jsut code.
  • m
    in particular chapters 1 and 2
  • m
    STOP BEING INTERESTING PEOPLE I HAVE CLASSES TO TEACH
  • a
    @sparse-musician-64201 It’s not the working on, it’s the coordination. If server just returns data, client needs to populate page. If server returns HTML, it needs to know client architecture (seems to me). But, as I said, it’s still a bit fuzzy. Probably should try a simple toy app.
  • s
    That is the curse of companies and teams organizing around a technology, it makes breaking from the pattern much harder because people can't stop thinking in terms of the known pattern.
  • s
    I keep trying to make my team stop doing scrum things but they just can't stop thinking themselves back into the agile box.
  • s
    Likelywise, backend, frontend, htmx, css, js, php, etc. its just code that shows funny boxes in the browser tube.
  • s
    It doesn't need a huge amount of ceremony aobvut which line of code is allowed to know about what other area of the program.
  • s
    Architechture is great, and I preach it, but good architechture is about good DX first and foremost.
  • s
    and honestly htmx is amazing DX, so I will warp my architechture around making htmx work for us.
  • s
    too many people jsut follow whatever pattern is how this month, the last from my team is people thinking about having the frontend gget json from the backend and then using (nuxt?) to server side render the html while the backend dev is trying to move the system to a serverless platform.. and im jsut over here in the corner losing my sanity... all I want to do is return a html table when the user picks and option ina dropdown box... and suddenly its a 5 person task taking several sprints.
  • s
    ok I'll breathe now. 🙂
  • l
    Hellbanning the TS discussion 😛
  • l
    Another way to think of this is that there is no "client architecture" per se. There is one server, that returns information about what the user can do or see, structured as a webpage (or parts of a webpage). Obviously not all apps are architected this way, or even all HTMX apps, but it's the simplest way to conceive of the architectures that HTMX makes possible. I think this essay explains it well: https://intercoolerjs.org/2016/05/08/hatoeas-is-for-humans.html
  • g
    This PR changed from an entirely new rollup build system to literally 2 lines of code that supports esm! Brilliant!
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