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thoughts on combining areivim with term insurance?...
# insurance
h
thoughts on combining areivim with term insurance? If areivim provides 100k per child, is it equivalent to the same $ amount of term insurance?
m
Great to combine but I wouldn't consider it any amount of term insurance
h
😶
c
Areivim isn't guaranteed and even if they do pay the family doesn't get the money straight out. Its controlled in a sort of trust and they decide how much to give the family each month/year or whatever.
And if you have life insurance, depending on the amount, you may be more likely to not get paid out since they might consider it as you having enough already.
m
may not you mean?
c
oops, yeh. fixed it.🙂
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l
@curved-toothbrush-84425 Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me... Historically, they've always paid out even when having life insurance (as a matter of fact they encourage on their website to get life insurance as well). (It's true that there's no legal guarantee, although at the same time they've been around for nearly 20 years now and have been working great. Just something to keep in mind)
c
I know someone who didn't get paid when their parent died because they felt they had enough money.
Regardless of how rare it is, its something to keep in mind. And the fact that you don't get paid directly is a really big deal.
l
I have a hard time believing that, but I can't dispute it without knowing the details. They say that they don't look at the finances whatsoever, if the family asks, they make a collection.
And in terms of the trust you mention, that's a bit misleading. it's pretty clear from their website how it works. The only restriction on the money is that it can't be invested into anything with risk (due to Halachik purposes). They only allow FDIC insured savings etc. The trust is controlled by the family and the family's Rov that they choose, and a member of Areivim board. Any expenses for the Yesomim are game.
(I personally know 3 families that had a collection from Areivim, so got to see from the other end how it works)
c
They say that they don't look at the finances whatsoever, if the family asks, they make a collection.
I don't see anywhere they actually say that. But I knew the son of the person who died personally and they were denied payment because of the size of the life insurance policy.
l
Btw the fact that you don't get paid directly is a huge plus in many scenarios, they can top up your grocery account and bills etc, without the widow getting kicked off Medicaid food stamps etc.
c
The trust is controlled by the family and the family's Rov that they choose, and a member of Areivim board. Any expenses for the Yesomim are game.
Would you want to go through a board that determines whether each expense is important enough to have money spent on it?
It might have good reasons, but it comes with negatives and most people don't read the terms and conditions and know what they're getting into.
I'm not against people going on Areivim, as long as they know exactly what they're paying into.
m
Am I allowed to have it go into the trust I already have setup or I need to have an entire separate process for this other trust that they make up the rules for?
l
image.png
c
Being eligible isn't the same thing as getting paid https://www.areivimusa.org/terms > Areivim USA on behalf of its members will determine the amount of funds raised and distributed per orphan, based on an evaluation of need, as determined through predetermined criteria.
l
"Would you want to go through a board that determines whether each expense is important enough to have money spent on it?" That seems like a false premise. They don't "determine" anything. As mentioned (and if you read the terms and conditions, the only restriction is that it can't be invested. Also, the board is majority you (a family member and YOUR Rov)
c
@mysterious-tomato-10057
thankyou 1
l
As I said
c
By definition if its held in a trust, you need to go through the trustees anytime you want to pull money out.
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And I know I sure wouldn't want any family members being involved every time I need to pull money out.
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l
I'm sure there's allot of terms in there that protect them from liability. I'm talking about how they operate
You don't need to have any family members involved. It says one representative of the family. Can be anyone you choose
Off topic, how do you reply to the message directly? (like on whatsap etc.)
(The only person on the board not selected by the family is the one member of Areivim (presumably just to make sure the rules are followed - no investing the money etc.)
c
You don't need to have any family members involved. It says one representative of the family. Can be anyone you choose
The point is most people don't want others involved in their financial decisions.
It operates like a tzedakah. Theres nothing really wrong with that. I just don't think most people actually understand how it operates. From the many conversations I've had with people a couple years ago when they were trying to get people on it. Many people treat it as an alternative to life insurance. Its not, its tzedakah. If someone wants to give and potentially receive tzedakah thats fine. But if you want life insurance get that directly. For $42/mo you can get a pretty decent life insurance plan.
l
https://www.youtube.com/live/FNRZwUxVN7A?si=OBwdjtGIe1QoFyUE Here's a presentation by the founder on Areivim from 3 years ago. (starts at 33 minutes in) @curved-toothbrush-84425 listen at 52 minutes in where he says clearly, that it happened twice where a member passed away and they said they don't need the money. "BUT IF ANY FAMILY FEELS THEY NEED THE MONEY... etc."
And even clearer: At 1:04 and 30 seconds in, someone asks "if the biggest Gvir in town passes away, will you still pay out? Answer: if the family says they need it and want it, they get it"
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