Quick question about UTMA tax gain harvesting. Is...
# general
t
Quick question about UTMA tax gain harvesting. Is it as simple as just selling up to $1,350 and immediately rebuying back into the ETF ? I know the theory, but have never done this before and am nervous to execute.
On a side note, if you’re doing this make sure your brokerage does not impose a time limit on buying back in. For example, Vanguard makes you wait 30 days before buying back into a mutual fund you sold. This doesn’t seem to apply to ETFs
n
Tax gain harvesting in an account for a child, like a UTMA, is not always as simple as just selling up to $1,350 and immediately buying back the same investment. The idea behind tax gain harvesting is to sell investments that have gone up in value so you can "reset" the cost basis. This can help you pay little or no tax on the gains if you stay under certain limits. But, there are a few things to keep in mind: • If you sell and immediately buy back the same investment, you are allowed to do this with gains (unlike losses, where there is a "wash sale" rule). • The $1,350 number you mention is likely related to the amount of unearned income (like investment gains) that can be taxed at the child's lower tax rate before the "kiddie tax" rules kick in. • You need to make sure that the total gains for the year do not go over the limit for the child’s tax-free or low-tax bracket. If you go over, some of the gains could be taxed at your (the parent's) higher rate. So, while selling and rebuying can work for tax gain harvesting in a UTMA, you need to check how much gain is allowed at the child's lower rate each year. If you stay under that amount, it can be a smart move. But always double-check the current limits and rules before doing this. Actionable takeaway: • Figure out how much gain your child can have taxed at their lower rate. • Sell up to that amount of gain. • Immediately buy back the same investment if you want to keep holding it. • Make sure not to go over the yearly limit so you don’t pay higher taxes. If you’re not sure about the exact numbers or rules for this year, it’s a good idea to ask a parent or a tax professional for help.
t
I saw someone reply and delete a message about gains vs losses. Note on that - you can still buy back in immediately with a loss, you just can’t use it for writing off losses on taxes.
t
Wouldn't you want to sell to generate up to $1350 of gain? So, if the porfolio went up, say, 20%, you'd want to sell $8100? Because the basis would be 6750, plus the 1350 of gain (I might be wrong, just trying to understand)
t
Sorry, yes, I should have phrased that better. You’d sell by lots to get up to that amount
I’d love to know if I’m the only one who gets anxiety pulling the trigger on what should be simple/obvious.
m
@thankful-angle-58448 you are correct
f
I'm going to do tax gain harvesting for the first time this year. And I'm also a bit nervous (even though I know how it works)
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t
I can send screenshots tomorrow. 🙂
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e
You should buy another ETF to avoid wash sale issues - like SPY instead of VOO. Even though they are similar that they both track the SP500, they don't cause a wash sale since they are different securities.
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t
Thank you for the advice. It doesn’t apply when you are doing gains harvesting for a step up in basis, only if you’re trying to write off a loss. I am trying to realize gains now so my son doesn’t pay taxes on them in the future.
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I really want to emphasize the thank you because some times people don’t know and it can cause issues!
I will advise everyone to research the platform they’re on. The wash sale issue is a tax issue. The platform may allow you to buy back into a similar security before 30 days , but you won’t be able to write off the loss on your taxes. With Vanguard: • The platform itself will not allow you to buy back into a mutual fund before 30 days. So make sure you’re buying a security without a wait limit for selling and rebuying. • You can convert a Vanguard mutual fund to an equivalent ETF without penalties or incurring cap gains/losses. (But not the other way around) ◦ So of I had mutual funds, I could have converted them to ETF, sold the ETF, and brought back in immediately. • If you go over some specific amount for cap gains/losses (since your trade executes when market is active and values are fluctuating), they will help you exchange the sell for a share in another lot to get you closer to your target amount.
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f
Good to know! With Vanguard, can you sell a mutual fund and immediately buy the equivalent ETF, or do you need to convert it first to be able to do that?
t
I think you can since you can sell an ETF and immediately rebuy it. It’s only a restriction on mutual funds.
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I brought it up because other platforms may have similar rules.
All this theory, and I’m too scared to press the buttons…
Also remember not to panic at the end of the year when everything loses values because dividends are being payed out.
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When a dividend distribution is made (around end of year) the mutual fund value decreases by value of dividend.
If you take money out of your wallet and put it in your pocket, you have the same amount of money all together, but your wallet has less.
Hello. Just following up on this thread. I wanted to post screenshots of what it looks like to sell specific tax lots in Vanguard. When you set up your trade, select market:
You will get a popup to choose a cost basis method, select SpecID
image.png
Play around with the lots you are trying to sell to try to get the right amount of gains (or losses, depending on what you’re trying to do). You will see a net gain/loss at the bottom of this screen:
image.png
Unfortunately, with Vanguard, you will not be able to sell partial shares when selling specific lots. You will have to go back to the original screen and update the number of shares there to match the number of shares you are selecting via lots. Vanguard investment support will actually help you with this, and can even swap out shares if you end up over/under your desired amount.
Sorry for breaking this up into multiple posts, I couldn’t get the screenshots in here effectively. On a side note, the Vanguard agent said he’s never seen an ETF grow as much in a year as the iShares Israeli ETF (ticker EIS) that I have in this account :)
f
Thanks for this! I (and probably others) really appreciate it!
t
I’m glad it helps!