curious to hear other people's perspectives on this https://rabbidaniellapin.com/renting-vs-owning/

• I agree that the concept of home ownership in America doesn't exist because of the biases and systems in place • I disagree that there is a biblical push to own property outside of eretz yisroel if the economics are negatively impactful

• I disagree that there is a biblical push to own property outside of eretz yisroel if the economics are negatively impactful

Most of the time when people claim something is “biblical”, they are totally wrong. Even if there is a convenient maamar chazal…

I didn't listen to the episode in question, so I don't know if its better supported. But using the laws of hashavas aveida as a proof of a biblical mandate towards owning a house rather than renting seems.... less than compelling

It's not saying there is a mandate, all he says is

God prefers everything to be owned

which, I dont think those laws necessarily support that assertion. And he's also citing it in his argument for home ownership. So...

gotta bring proof that hashem has preferences...

"if you find something, figure out who it belongs to and return it" --> "see? everyone should own stuff" Does not compute to me

I really wanted to know what people thought about property tax. It seems like @mysterious-tomato-10057 you agree with Rabbi Lapin on that at least?

also everyone owning stuff isn't a proof that one should own a home. it says we can own slaves, does that mean we have a biblical preference to own slaves?

can you elaborate on "I agree that the concept of home ownership in America doesn't exist because of the biases and systems in place"?

It seems like @mysterious-tomato-10057 you agree with Rabbi Lapin on that at least?

Idk if I agree with him fully because he takes it back by saying there is still a biblical preference which means he doesn't see it as renting, but i still do.

'leolam bahem taavodu'

Calling property tax renting is like calling the death penalty murder. It's mostly a semantic argument. Property tax being determined through the arbitrary assessment of the home value (which isn't exactly how it works) is mostly inconsequential. Ultimately society needs people to help pay for the services it provides and this is how society decided to do it. You effectively have a debt that includes a lien on your home. That doesn't make it renting. If you had a random loan that included a lien on your property is that renting until it's paid back? I'm pretty sure even the Torah would require selling off your property to pay back a debt.

My agreement that you don't own property is around the governments ability to take it away and the way that process works, not because of property taxes.

It’s a principle of ancient Jewish wisdom that God prefers everything to be owned.

When you're renting, the house is still owned - just not by you.

That's a good point, there are lots of ways for a person's house to be taken away / sale forced besides not paying their property taxes

If I understand the halachos of Yovel correctly, you can't purchase property at all, except in walled cities. All others returned in Yovel. How exactly is this a preference for purchasing a home?

well in that case ownership is even more strongly preferred because everyone descended from the original shevatim is forced to be an owner

According to my understanding of Yovel, it's actually the opposite. Every 50 years, Hashem takes all the land and redistributes it, because He is the only one who ultimately owns it, and this helps us recognize that our ownership is only because it's being given to us. Also, people aren't technically forced to be owners, because there is something they can do to make it permanently not in their possession. If they make it Cherem (which is a certain type of cursing it), then it goes to the Kohanim, and he never gets it back, even at Yovel.

That's one for the Shabbos table!