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# htmx-dev
  • r
    it was always staying somewhere in the region of the element begin swapped
  • r
    and autofocus is respected as well
  • r
    Wouldn't be surprised if 
    aria-*
    boilerplate gets a deprecation notice in a few years. At least 
    alt
    actually adds content you can't get in any other way (even this might get superseeded by computer vision in browser clients with all the ai work recently).
  • r
    I skimmed through the docs and ngl, it's frustrating
  • r
    on one hand, you've got bazillion of those aria-* and role=* attributes
  • r
    documentation of which is scattered across multitude of standards, RFC and guidelines
  • r
    many of which are authored by w3, and their website navigation is exceptionally confusing (although this might be partially on me)
  • r
    you're not wrong, the w3 website has always been a crap experience
  • r
    and you kinda need those docs, since there are particular recommended techniques on how to use those attributes
  • r
    at least MDN is somewhat sane in this regard
  • r
    mdn, w3school, etc existing = w3 fail design since 1999
  • r
    and then when you try to follow the patterns, they end up being actually quite limited, because you got a role=feed for infinite scrolling, but what if you want infinite table? Do I have to convert my table to feed of articles? can I set role=feed to table? and the moment you are out of the docs, you are completely stranded, because there is little to no material on aria outside of w3 and mdn
  • r
    Yeah, Gotta keep in mind man, it's 100% a live standard. W3 cannot fully predict usage, these things are supposed to evolve.
  • r
    and not to mention that screen readers have their own little quirks with how they process accessibility tree, and how to make it say what you want and the voice steadily makes you go slightly nuts
  • r
    Just sad that HTML stopped at 5. But that's why we're all here of course.
  • r
    accessibility is hard folks
  • r
  • l
    I get the frustration, but Renerick's PR at least is a good example of why most HTML is accessible-by-default. Basically all of those changes (particularly 
    <a class=btn>
    -> 
    <button>
    ) are just better uses of HTML
  • l
    With the huge caveat that I'm not an accessibility expert, the common denominator that any accessibility tech uses is standard HTML, so I think using HTML as correctly (and semantically, if you like) as possible gets you 95% of the way there
  • g
    htmx is html eXtended. if you're extending html, you can't expect the extended parts to be accessible for free
  • g
    which is why it's so sad that html develops so slowly
  • l
    Yeah not diminishing the difficulty focus issue or the scolding, just saying that HTMX is a massive win for accessibility precisely because it extends HTML so little
  • l
    larger point i've made before about forcing you to learn HTML yadda yadda
  • g
    the biggest development in the last year was 
    <search>
    , an alias for 
    <div role=search>
  • l
    you mean 
    <input type=search>
    , or something else?
  • g
    no, 
    <div role=search>
    . it's a landmark role
  • g
  • l
    got it, not seeing anything about the 
    <search>
    alias though
  • g
    yeah i've never heard of a 
    <search>
    tag
  • m
    @ripe-action-67367 can you DM me?