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# citrix-vad
s
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j
News to me
n
Well then, you heard it here first.
Apparently, "Citrix Cloud" was confusing (their words).
k
Makes sense. I've had a few customers asking me what a VM costs in Citrix Cloud or what kind of hypervisor they are running.
j
Well, it can manage on-premises stuff I guess
n
They continue to push harder to get us to move stuff to the cloud. I'm open to looking at moving our XD workload to the cloud, but XA will probably remain on-prem.
Their elimination of perpetual licenses will probably affect a lot.
k
Some customers I talk to will not be be able to have workloads in the cloud for a long time, usually because of client-server apps that are very latency intensive. During the last couple of years I have also been talking to multiple customers considering going with Microsoft 365/Modern Management instead of Citrix, or with a very limited set of app in Citrix
n
If they can't go to Citrix because of latency, why on earth would they then choose MS?
Microsoft has been pushing us hard to try and use MS Managed Desktops.
j
Get everything converted to MSIX first
k
Well, the ones "stuck" with latency sensitive apps will probably not only go with MS, they will need Citrix as well
n
I dunno. Even though I have no personal experience with MS's cloud virtual solutions, I have never heard great things about their offering when compared to Citrix.
k
It depends.. 😄
I am not talking AVD here, plain old physical laptops managed with Intune/Endpoint Management
💯 2
n
Ah, okay
We're probably headed in that direction for our physical fleet, anyway, but that's completely separate from Citrix.
When they presented Managed Desktops to us (virtual), it didn't sound like it was a good use case for us. I repeatedly asked them about video optimization, and they were like yeah, we optimize! Never answered my question about optimization outside of Teams, because I'm 99% sure that's all they can optimize.
Even in their own docs, that's all that's listed.
k
I think you're right
AVD doesn't provide much when it comes to optimization and user experience
n
We have some leaders here who are all in on the MS train. Not because it's the best solution, but because they know the name Microsoft. Us Citrix guys have been trying to show them that Citrix can do the same shit that they want, and all integrated into the same single access point, which we don't have now. It's been a struggle.
j
They're everywhere, the MS cheerleaders. They're not leaders, they're followers
n
I completely agree.
We have a new CIO here who seems like he wants to buck that trend and start making better decisions in IS, so I'm hopeful that it happens.
k
Here it's mostly about license costs, nothing else. Because it's almost free some are willing to sacrifice user experience, image management, non-persistence and years of know how, to save on license costs
n
That's part of it, too. We have E5 licenses here, so naturally they want to milk everything they can.
That said, we also have unlimited licenses in Citrix with our current contract, which goes another 2-3 years.
j
Ain't nothing free
n
Do you guys have to deal with "what does Gartner say about this product?" with every decision? I swear, if we want to do anything, we have to see what they say first.
👍 1
j
I refuse to deal with any industry recommendations or even vendor recommendations. I just tell them "let's do it this way because this works best". Fortunately I have people who listen to me......for now
n
That's pretty much how we feel. You pay us, let us make the best decision for our own use cases.
b
Holy crap. Another rebranding. WTF are they doing...
n
Citrix Desktop as a Service... also for your published application needs
l
For those of you that don't like MS, what do you like? We've been stuck in Gsuite hell for a long time and while the grass is always greener, at least MS is designed around the enterprise
k
Well, I do like the Microsoft 365 platform I am actually going for the MS101 exam next week and I already have the MS100. There is a lot of features in M365 that is possible to use in a session host based or VDI based setup
e
I think the future is W365E
j
oof
e
And Intune is going to be what O365/M365 became for Exchange, at least for < 1000 users.
j
I've read that, good read. However in my environments the capability of that sort of use case is a very long way off currently
e
Yeah more than 1k users becomes more complicated.
j
Hopefully I will be retired by the time it scales up to bigger estates ;-)
👍 1
e
Bigger $env will be stuck with Citrix or VMware
And don’t put all your money on MSIX, that will take time as well.
j
Yeah, agree. I'm more sold on nupkg currently as a packaging standard.
💯 1
e
Currently migrating 1250 SCCM apps to Intune for 8000 devices.
Now the Citrix teams needs to figure what to do when we’re all migrated to Intune and decom SCCM. The server team is also looking into other solutions. Great times
j
I have stacks of SCCM that I'm trying to get into a Nexus repo short term and then across to InTune longer term
Interesting times 🙂
👍 1
n
We're still very firmly in the App-V packaging world, published in Citrix. I'd love App Attach/MSIX, but it's taking forever, and what I've read so far isn't inspiring.
j
Get AppVentix and just convert everything to MSIX
n
That's on my list if we move forward with this app virtualization project.
j
AppVentix is practically free software. Also does deployment of certificates and FSLogix rules. Totally sold on it as the "halfway house" between App-V infra and InTune
👍 2
n
I use your favorite Citrix app for deployment of FSL rules, so we're good there, but you've mentioned AppVentiX to me in the past, which is why I looked into it and liked what I saw. I think the struggle will be convincing everyone to shift away from App-V to something else. We have over 100 App-V packages currently, with another possible 40-50 as part of this project, so I guess the time is now if we were going to make that switch. MS ditching App-V certainly helps my case for getting away from it. At the end of the day, we still probably want to publish all of these apps in XenApp, though.
I can't recall off the top of my head, but can you convert other app types to MSIX, or just App-V packages?
k
Isn't App-V close to an EOL date?
n
2026
k
Ok, not close
:D
n
Wait, let me confirm that. 2023 is EOL, but I still think there's more in support.
Yeah, EOS is 2026.
I don't want to wait until the last hour to make a move, though.
k
Sounds like a smart decision
n
Let's see if others feel the same way. 😄
Looks like their Lab edition is free, so I can definitely get this running in our QA environment to demo it.
k
Yeah, Appventix has a free edition with support for 5 or 10 software packages
Should be enough for a PoC
n
Definitely
I don't think we meet the App Attach requirements currently in XenApp, though, so that'd require a shift to Server 2019+ if we went the MSIX route.
k
Which OS are you on in XenApp?
n
2016
k
Is MSIX not supported in 2016?
n
I honestly don't know. I actually thought it was only available in AVD right now, but I swear I was told otherwise recently.
I do still think that's the case, AVD only, unless somebody proves me wrong.
Which means staying on App-V is more likely.
k
MSIX and App Attach is definitely available in 2019 and later
j
MSIX works better on 2022, that's for sure, but it is available in 2019
n
I think we'd probably go straight to 2022 if we made a move. That makes the most sense to me.
k
If bot using AppVentix you will have to come up with some powershell scripts for the App Attach part though
n
Funny, your blog (which I just recalled you writing about this topic) is one of the few that actually mentions this.
MS's docs are all based around AVD.
Yeah, and while I can, I'm not doing that. I'd rather we just purchased a utility to handle all of this for us.
k
Again, a smart decision, you are on a roll :P
n
I'll have to make up for it later
k
So you plan on taking some not so smart decisions?
n
BBQ for lunch, which my wife will say is a not so smart decision...
😄 1
Maybe I'll also ask MS for an update on my FSLogix ticket. That's never smart.
😄 1
@James Rankin: Any chance you know the ballpark cost for AppVentiX?
j
DM'ed
m
One thing you’ve got to keep in mind with all the MS cheerleaders is that MS has a LOT of money to throw around to keep people cheering for them. I was at a company where they ditched Citrix and sent everyone an intune managed Autopilot provisioned Surface. Can only imagine the incentives MS provided there…
😮 1
n
Yeah, I loved that one, "replace all of your devices with these $2700 Surface Pros!"
k
I love my Surface Pro 🤩
n
They're decent, but replacing devices with them just to access W365/etc? lol
k
Sounds like something MS would do.
I heard of a customer here in DK with 10K users where MS had told them that an RDS setup was perfectly capable of handling that amount of users. After a few months of PoC, Citrix was brought in :)
Btw. If you go above 500 objects in Server Manager with RDS, you have to use PowerShell for managing user sessions
n
lol, that's so dumb
PS is great and all, but sometimes I just want to click on shit with my mouse.
k
I agree. And managing user sessions with PowerShell is not ideal
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