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# htmx-general
  • l
    In the case of data scientists, it's more about component architecture. You have computation and visualization components. The composition of those components is always a challenge. In a two-language situation, you have to have parallel composition hierarchies that must be aligned.
  • g
    I think our current batch of client-side frameworks just blurs what MVC really is -- look at the progression of mvvcmmvcvvmc redefinitions popping up. Sending straight JSON between client and server means having TWO models, TWO controllers, and exploding the number of languages you have to use to make your application. Angular was very cool, but it was awful in terms of implementing full-stack MVC.
  • g
    I think all of this chaos is why we ended up with so many apps being built in node. If there's no other way to make a modern web app than by using a Javascript framework, then let's at least simplify the back end and use Javascript there, too. Except, Javascript sucks as a back end language. My plan for my next project was "screw it, plain HTML everywhere." At least it would give me a single model, and I'd work out interactivity some other way. HTMX is absolutely perfect for this. And, I think this (or some spiritual descendent of it) will become one of the primary ways that we deliver apps in the future.
  • g
    The tech world is just slow to adopt truly radical ideas, and very risk averse when it comes to changing the paradigm. They're all waiting for that one killer app that shows them a better way, and then the floodgates will open.
  • g
    On the query result demo -- that's very cool. Remember, you could always serve up all of the results, and then expand collapse them on the client-side only.
  • l
    @User So, our new datasets are from large medical data .... some of the time you simply can't fit it on the client, and if you did, it'd take lots of time/memory.
  • l
    I think there's a big opportunity for HTMX in Julia, which is an emerging backend language used for data science projects (health research, for me). People here simply don't want to use Javascript.
  • l
    This past Monday, I set out to write a simple 
    Todo.jl
    but even the basics in Julia community arn't there.
  • g
    True. I'd imagine lots of datasets wouldn't all fit on the browser at once. But one page at a time? Maybe 🙂 That's why I was really interested in 
    hx-prev
    and 
    hx-next
    (or some variation) that would allow the browser to automatically load/unload pages when needed.
  • m
    @User happy to help, would love for htmx to be a useful tool in Julia
  • l
    So, websockets are big in Julia land. You use HTTP to bootstrap your streaming connection, then for the data updates, you're using Web Sockets.
  • m
    How is the front end rendered? SVG or HTML?
  • l
    Quite a bit is with SVG.
  • m
    OK
  • m
    As long as it is markup, I think htmx should hold up pretty well
  • m
    definitely a new space for htmx/intercooler though
  • m
    so there might be some bumps between here and there
  • l
    The projects that are making headway are ones using React or Vue on the front end, they use MsgPack to marshall the data over to the client model, and then use the client side framework.
  • m
    if there is a lot of javascript execution going on, htmx should be able to out perform it if it can satisfy the use case
  • l
    So. I think Julia has a killer feature, multi-dispatch, which isn't quite clear to many yet. I'm reminded when Zope 3 came out... they added multiple dispatch because it was needed to handle lots of hetrogenous data types. Anyway, Zope 3 failed for that reason, it was too slow/cumbersome. But the need was there.
  • l
    The issue is, if you're using Javascript for your front end, you really can't use multiple dispatch. On the other hand, if you're building SVG/HTML server side... you can.
  • m
    server side is the best
  • m
    use whatever you want kids
  • l
    Think of multiple dispatch as multi-dimentional OO, you dispatch on all arguments, not just the first; hence, you can define mixing that are completely unforeseen in applications without touching framework code. Anyway, point is, if you're making SVG/HTML on server side, you can leverage that; while, if you're syncing to a browser model, you can't.
  • m
    higher order monadic categoies of types of kinds, whatever
  • m
    yeah, I know multi-dispatch
  • m
    I'm a dumb java developer tho, that's the level I operate at
  • g
    Sorry, I never had to learn “multi-dispatch.” Does this mean returning multiple objects in a single request? If so, that sounds similar to Graph-QL databases. If I’m off base, would you mind throwing a quick requesst/response example, @lively-beach-14291?
  • g
    In a sense, oob-swaps might serve a similar purpose.
  • l
    Sure. Suppose you have an operator 
    +
    . Now you have two data types 
    X
    and 
    Y
    . What does 
    X + Y
    mean?
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