https://frum.finance logo
Join Slack
Powered by
Mint counts my unvested stock as Net Worth. I feel...
# budgeting
w
Mint counts my unvested stock as Net Worth. I feel like that's not totally accurate.
m
you need to mark it as ignored/duplicate
b
Wouldn’t that also be inaccurate though? Net worth should include all assets. Just not as cash.
m
unvested stock is not an asset.
unvested stock are as much as an asset is next years salary.
w
mmm marking it as ignored is beyond my Mint competence.
m
as long as I don’t get to claim a tax deduction for my unborn children, you need to click “mark as duplicate” under the accounts settings
🤣 1
b
Ok I read that wrong. I didn’t know what unvested stock meant. Was thinking it was invested stock.
👍 1
m
No worries
w
I don't see how to do that. I see how to mark individual transactions as duplicates but not an account.
(Also, if I mark it as duplicate, will that mean that I need to unmark it when stocks vest?)
b
Each transaction should have a slide button to "Hide from Budgets and Trends"
If that's what you're looking for
w
Maybe what I'm missing is that this is an entire account, not just a transaction, so not sure how to hide that.
m
i’ll send a screenshot but no you wont because vested stock moves to a different account
don’t be on mobile
Screenshot 2023-02-28 at 12.01.44 PM.png
inactive
👍 1
w
ok inactive is what I was missing. I'm now worth ~100k less!
m
lol whenever i feel bad i just make it active again
😆 3
n
Isn't unvested stock granted and earned, but restricted based on conditions (usually continued employment)? If yes, that should be a contingent asset. Up to you if you want to include it, but if you think it likely that it will vest, I would include it. Certainly from the company's perspective, it's compensation expense when granted. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what unvested stock is.
b
@nutritious-raincoat-28876 this sounds like counting next year's salary in your current assets and that just doesn't make sense to do. It should only be counted once vested.
👍 1
m
Agreed with @bumpy-minister-26192 Yes it's in my account but I can't do anything with it until it vests with my continued employment. Same with next year's salary.
If I can count future returns that are contingent on continued employment then my net worth right now is 100x
Likely to vest is silly to guess. Anyone can be fired tomorrow.
The government also agrees with me because I only get the tax liability of the stock the moment it vests and becomes mine.
n
Okay, maybe I'm misunderstanding. Suppose the plan is 1 share/year. Vesting period is 5 years. After 4 years, 0 have vested. After 5 years, do all 5 vest, or only 1?
The government also agrees with me because I only get the tax liability of the stock the moment it vests and becomes mine.
The government also doesn't tax unrealized gains, but I would include fair value of owned stock in net worth, despite the gains not being taxable (yet).
m
@nutritious-raincoat-28876 is the vesting period 1 share per year or each share matures after 5 years?
b
Does it matter, it's not your stock until it gets vested. If you keep working you will get paid a salary next year, even if I show you that amount and keep it in your profile, it's not yours till you actually spend the time working and get paid.
m
@nutritious-raincoat-28876 unrealized gains are yours though!! you have the option to walk away and capture it. You don’t with unvested stocks.
The comparison to unrealized gains is silly. I am chose to not realize them so they are right now part of my net worth. Unvested stock is literally not mine.
n
is the vesting period 1 share per year or each share matures after 5 years?
Dunno, I was asking you that 😄 I've never had a stock compensation plan, since universities don't have stock 😂
m
it depends on the plan
n
@mysterious-tomato-10057 I was disagreeing purely with your tax liability comparison, not making a tax-based argument for my opinion
m
For example, one of my plans is a 4 year vest schedule. 5% in year one 5%, 15% in year 2, 40% in year 3, and 40% in year 4. after each vest, i add it to my net worth
i certainly am not going to going 100% of that 4 year schedule as my net worth at my hire date
n
@bumpy-minister-26192 depending on how the vesting works, I wouldn't consider it the same as next year's salary. Next year's salary is unearned (this is very much a financial accounting argument lol), but unvested stock is earned. I am making this argument assuming that in my example, at year 5, all 5 years of stock vest. However, if you work for 40 years and retire, but walk away with only 35 shares, I concede the point.
m
unvested stock is not considered earned
n
@mysterious-tomato-10057 Hang on, all the stock is granted on the hire date? Then I definitely retract my argument.
m
well your new hire stock grant (which is usually 4 years at most companies) is granted on your hire date
you can earn additional grants later, but they will vest over 4 years from whenever you earned those new grants
n
My vesting experience was with a 403b, where the match was added to my account for each period, but would be removed if I don't stay a minimum number of years. Once I stay, everything in the past and going forward vests immediately.
m
so the day I was hired, i was handed a 6 figure stock portfolio of unvested stock
n
Okay, I agree, that's not earned. I misunderstood the setup. That's fake.
m
I don’t understand actually why you have changed camps because I wouldn’t count the 403b match either if it has a contingency on it. It still seems like the same situation to me lol
b
The 403b match is not constantly rolling fwd, typically after 5 years it's all yours and any future match vests immediately. For stock grants it's always rolling fwd. But otherwise, same idea, it's not yours till it vests.
n
At least we've found common ground and where we disagree 😄 I would include earned contingent assets so long as the probability of vesting is reasonably high. If the required employment period is 10 years, that's a different story, but if it's 2 years and 6 months in, things are going well... I hear the other side—think it's just personal preference
@bumpy-minister-26192 if it's always rolling forward, then I completely agree. That's just fake.
m
is 4 years at a FAANG company reasonably high?
n
Good Q. I know nothing about FAANG companies 😂 Universities tend to give multiyear contracts (and hopefully tenure at some point) so this may be part of my biased view of continued employment 🙈
w
@mysterious-tomato-10057 in 2021 or 2022/2023? laugh cry
lolsob 1
Open in Slack
PreviousNext
Powered by