https://frum.finance logo
Join Slack
Powered by
<!channel> :tada: NEW: Dream2Job BETA Calculator :...
# general
m
<!channel> šŸŽ‰ NEW: Dream2Job BETA Calculator šŸŽ‰ Single or newly married and trying to figure out what income youā€™ll need to live the life you want? Not sure what career path to take? Not sure what to expect for expenses or how to compare life decisions? Try our new simulator to estimate the income needed for your ā€œdream lifeā€ ā€” and get an AI summary of common jobs that can realistically reach that income and fit your lifestyle. Includes a detailed breakdown of which government benefits you need in which years šŸ‘‰ Check it out: https://app.frum.finance/quiz Feedback is highly appreciated!
šŸ™Œ 3
šŸ™ŒšŸ» 1
thankyou 2
r
The numbers look a bit off (too low) and software developer being the number one career? Really?
m
Can you give me the link to your quiz results you think are too low?
If my quiz hit the nail on the head predicting your career, that's a feature not a bug lol
But I'm using AI for that
r
I need to re-run it
b
@hallowed-air-36797
a
Is the number an average you need to make over the working period? Or the total amount per year starting from now?
m
It's the salary at year 10 assuming a gradual increase to that number, then increasing 1% thereafter. Assumes you start at 50% of that number in year 1
šŸ‘ 1
b
Career paths seem too limited/slanted to specific industries
f
I just tried this out and found the numbers surprisingly on target.
ā¤ļø 1
i
I love this idea. The projected net worth seems too high though. For example, my graph is reporting 11 million dollars net worth at age 80. Some people may prefer a lower net worth at retirement, in exchange for a more easily attainable salary.
m
is that the conservative or the moderate graph? It's already showing you a minimum salary in order to attain the goals
i
m
@boundless-mouse-70301 Tell me more what you mean. If its a high salary need that requires top 1% of income then it makes sense that youā€™ll have a very limited set of options given that 1% incomes are hard to find
s
@mysterious-tomato-10057 I've got so many questions, but don't want to pollute this thread, I personally think a channel dedicated to feedback might be helpful and spark some good conversation /threads
m
> I think it would be helpful if we can adjust the net worth goals The net worth goal is set to be as low as reasonably possible by default. (That below the 20% threshold it hits bankrupcy) The reason you are seeing a high net worth at the end, is that any less income that would result in a lower amount of money at the end would make it so you couldnā€™t afford the earlier goals causing an earlier bankrupcy.
@sparse-church-6144 letā€™s see how much this explodes before jumping to a new channel šŸ™‚ we have a lot of channels already, post your thoughts!
b
A huge portion of the frum community do not have a professional degree that earns 1 percent level of income. Needs to have options that with some (/a lot of) hustle can reach that level of income. One simple obvious example that was missing was sales.
m
Bā€H we have slack AI summaries
s
Working Budget
Does this include rent /mortgage ?
m
Yes
i
> The net worth goal is set to be as low as reasonably possible by default. (That below the 20% threshold it hits bankrupcy) > Perhaps yearly retirement savings amounts should be lowered in such instances.
m
If you lower yearly savings, you would fail to meet the earlier goals, thatā€™s why those scenarios are being discarded by the monte-carlo
t
I know this is trying to help people (plus I'm already 35 and with 3 kids) but it's saying I'd need to make between $370k-400k a year. I'm screwedā€¦
ā¤ļø 3
m
This is not for an older person, it assumes a young couple with no net worth built up.
And if someone did get results that showed their income was completely misaligned with their goals, that would help!! It shows you that your goals are misaligned so you can either seriously change your goals, seriously change your actions, or both.
t
I thought I put pretty normal things tbh but yeah for sure I'm skewing it with my particular set of circumstance
m
The younger kids are, the easier it is also to lower your standards I have found.
I have put in many scenarios in here where the choices lead to < 100k needed and a lot more that require < 200k. Every question has a budget option and then a few more luxurious options. Obviously, the more luxuries you decide, the more income that is neededā€¦
k
I think it'd be helpful to have an initial net worth option
m
I think itā€™d be helpful to have an initial net worth option
Lol yes eventually I will rebuild right capital, but not yet!
k
As a work around is it fair to reduce your age by the number of years until your net worth? Eg if ur 30 with a net worth of 50k and the simulator calculates you'll reach 50k at 35 then can you input your current age as 25 or will that break things?
m
urgh iā€™ll add it lol
k
Hahahaha
šŸ’Ŗ 1
h
This is really cool! Is it a feature that all of my projected children are boys? Or am I reform and make bar mitzvahs for my girls also? https://app.frum.finance/quiz?currentAge=29&amp;step=17&amp;retirementAge=65&amp;job_type=corpora[ā€¦]e=day_camp&amp;pesach_style=home&amp;allow_benefits=yes&amp;view=results
ā¤ļø 1
šŸ˜‚ 3
m
haha i was too lazy to have it randomize genders, so i made every kid a boy yeah lol
t
I hear ya, but I did choose standard for everything and it blows my mind for a ā€˜standardā€™ normal life would should has to cost $375-400k a year? Isn't that crazy or do I not understand money?
I didn't choose anything fancy lol
m
i donn't think i would call those "standard" options to be "normal". The middle option doesn't necessarily mean it should be attainable by the average person.
t
A single family home? A regular venue for a simcha? Staying home for Pesach? Day camp instead of sleep away camp? What am I missing?
m
i personally can't imagine spending that much on a wedding to go above the community takana standards, that's a lot of money. Send your quiz results so i can see more clearly.
t
What's community takana standard? Maybe I misunderstood
m
a takana wedding is like 20k
for me that's more than enough, that's considered a "budget" weddding
t
Thank you @mysterious-tomato-10057 !! For anyone reading I said i put in my age at 35 and if we fix the test based on a 22 year olds input the number is closer to $155k. THAT makes so much sense for our ā€˜standardā€™ of living lolā€¦
ā¤ļø 1
šŸŽÆ 1
šŸ‘ 2
b
This is really cool!
m
Thank you!
f
@mysterious-tomato-10057 I think this might be a bug - it's suggesting $40k a month in retirement, even though it's less than $7k a month before retirement
m
The suggestion is because you have the money to spend not because you need to use it.
šŸ‘ 1
You were not spending enough to burn through the growth of the portfolio
f
I see. Wouldn't it make sense to have a lower target salary, then?
m
No because a lower target salary doesn't get you to the peak needed for the harder years.
šŸ‘ 1
Basically we have an income timing issue. The efficient thing would be for the previous generation to pay tuition for the younger generation then we could move the end money to the beginning and require lower paying jobs just by moving the same money around.
šŸ˜® 1
šŸŽÆ 1
f
Also, how much is it assuming it costs for a single family home in an urban Jewish hub? Someone could get a 3-bedroom in Far Rockaway or West Hempstead for $600-700k, or a $2.5M house in Lawrence, and both of those are "Single Family Home / Private House"
m
You can see the assumed budget in the report screen and adjust it manually.
f
Is that available on mobile? I don't see it.
m
It's the second slider in the image you shared above
t
wow the output is almost exactly our HHI... which I guess means early retirement is not so likely lolsob
on the plus side we'll be worth 35 million at age 90??
ā¤ļø 1
wait... working budget of 6858...? I'm having a hard time reading this. Does that mean what I'm meant to be spending monthly now at my current age? cuz that accounts for just tuition basically
f
It's the salary at year 10 assuming a gradual increase to that number, then increasing 1% thereafter. Assumes you start at 50% of that number in year 1
I think it'd be helpful to add that as a clarification on the tool itself, to make it more clear what that number represents
āœ… 1
m
> wait... working budget of 6858...? Iā€™m having a hard time reading this. Does that mean what Iā€™m meant to be spending monthly now at my current age? cuz that accounts for just tuition basically A link would be helpful, there are a lot of assumptions obviously happening for a young couple that I canā€™t model that would need a full monte carlo @thankful-angle-58448
t
@mysterious-tomato-10057 a design/style recommendation: have a single page where assumptions can be edited so you don't have to click through the whole thing. (Or, have the previous-> next navigation be at top of the screen so the location doens't bounce around so it can easily clicked repeatedly)
although, I'm seeing now that all the assumptions are in the query params, so I can just edit them that way
šŸ’Ŗ 1
and sorry, what does "retired budget" mean? is that supposed to mean monthly budget in retirement in today's dollars? Because its saying $2517 which doesn't seem anywhere close to accurate. Or does that mean $2517 above social security? (because I chose 65 as retirement date)
m
isnā€™t it offering you to optimize up your retired budget?
t
it is! Just trying to figure out what that $2517 number is meant to represent
m
itā€™s the barebones survival number you are set to spend in retirement since based on the limited info i have from you
as in, you could survive off that
no kids in the house, no mortgage
t
ah ok. Although even just for that it seems really low, you still gotta pay property taxes and home owners insurance even after the mortgage is over, plus gas and car stuff etc, in addition to groceries and utilities
āœļø 1
b
YEs, I'm wondering about the same thing too. The number also seemed low for me (working budget).
m
working budget is low because i didnā€™t add in clothing or cleaning help, i am adding that now
also my formula for tuition might be wrong for your community so please let me know so i can adjust it
here are my tuition assumptions with the tuition discount set at a max of 20% of pre-tax income
b
Right, but we put in community type, that was an option
m
right so i might need to adjust what i assume for tuitions based on community type
šŸ‘ 1
so if my tuition assumptions need adjustments, please let me know!
t
i dont' think most communities have a max of 20% of gross income for tuition
b
super cool! would love the option to put in a starting net worth so it's helpful for a broader audience
i
Is it working right now? It looks like it's stuck on "calculating"
m
How long have you waited? thatā€™s not expectedā€¦
s
I'm seeing the same...
m
the same bug or the same results as before?
link?
s
m
investigating
kk my local version is working so just wait a few minutes iā€™ll have an update for you
šŸ†• Update to Hishtadlus Laboratory! ā€¢ Starting investable net worth is now configurable ā€¢ AI now biases towards including jobs that donā€™t require advanced degrees ā€¢ All numbers now have more explanations of what they mean ā€¢ Social Security is clearer ā€¢ Adding in Clothing Costs and Cleaning Help ā€¢ Properly handles the fact that home purchases result in the mortgage and principal falling off after 30 years. ā€¢ Dynamically determine the home purchase year by when a 20% down payment can be saved up.
šŸ‘ 5
ā¤ļø 1
i
This might have been mentioned before, when you search career paths, the AI prompt assumes that one individual will be earning the entire household income. Have you thought about adding a customization to take 2 income earners into account?
Also, not sure if it's worth customizing- but some people have different standards for their 2 cars. For example, an old small car and a nicer minivan.
k
Seems to be stalling for me when I input a nonzero starting net worth
m
https://frumfinance.slack.com/archives/C04E9F1HAJK/p1767064985439739?thread_ts=1766957608.714869&amp;cid=C04E9F1HAJK This is the type of specifics that require a full Monte Carlo, not a quick tool IMO
šŸ‘ 1
k
m
It's working for me... Maybe you can dm me a screen recording ?
šŸ‘ 1
k
Also there seems to be a units mismatch for step 14 (hours vs dollars)
m
@lemon-church-56249 can you fix that point Kayla mentioned about two incomes?
šŸ‘ 2
@lemon-church-56249 can you fix the unit mismatch the dov mentioned?
šŸ‘ 3
l
āœ… Codex task completed. _View task_
m
@incalculable-toothbrush-90475 you think the ai should just assume each spouse should make half the money?
i
I don't think so. I'll pm you
r
@mysterious-tomato-10057 How do you factor in inflation? Is the result shown in todayā€™s dollars?
m
Both of those are explained on the site. Can you look again and tell me how I could have better clarified that?
r
Ok I see it now ā€œAll Values in Todayā€™s Dollarsā€. Still confused about how you use inflation in the overall calculation - do you assume a specific rate of inflation every year?
m
Yes.
r
Also - are we taking into account higher healthcare costs during child-caring years? And after retirement?
And nursing home expenses, etC?
For inflation can we add this rate in somewhere? Like it says for the market ā€œ10% Market Returnā€ maybe say ā€œ4% inflationā€?
āœ… 1
m
@lemon-church-56249 add in support for nursing care assumption of a 2 year care of care at the national average cost
šŸ‘ 1
l
On it. Kicked off a task in the "Core" environment.
r
What about scenarios like supporting kids in kollel / grandchildrenā€™s tuitions?
m
Supporting kids in kolel is already there in the wedding options.
For inflation can we add this rate in somewhere? Like it says for the market ā€œ10% Market Returnā€ maybe say ā€œ4% inflationā€?
I built that already but it seems to have disappeared, let me add that back in
r
ah ok under ā€œPremiumā€. A bit confusing but works.
šŸ’Ŗ 1
m
Inflation added back into the header, sorry about that!
@kind-tent-62235 fixed the unit mismatch you found, thanks!
šŸ‘ 1
t
@mysterious-tomato-10057 I think there's a bug in the "unspent retirement savings", its saying I would have an extra 80k per month https://app.frum.finance/quiz?currentAge=2&amp;step=18&amp;job_type=corporate&amp;use_family_over[ā€¦]=sleepaway&amp;pesach_style=home&amp;allow_benefits=yes&amp;view=results
also that 68m net worth at age 90 does not pass the smell test
oh sorry false alarm, i had age at 2 instead of 20
āœ… 1
(modifying the "current investable assets" on the results page results in an eternal "calculating" for the projections)
b
same - eternal "calculating" when modifying current investable assets
m
ohhh i see, okay the slider works but typing in the number doesn't
i'll get that fixed
i
Is there a way to see details of what is included in the calculation? for example how much is a chasuna or bar mitzva
m
@prehistoric-motherboard-80539 please make an issue in the UI repo to have a collapsable advanced assumptions menu for users that want to see a breakdown of what went into their histadlus laboratory results
āœļø 1
āœ… 1
p
āœ… Created issue #147: Add collapsible advanced assumptions menu to Hishtadlus Laboratory results The issue includes: ā€¢ Detailed requirements for the collapsible menu ā€¢ List of all assumptions that should be displayed (tuition, housing, cars, groceries, etc.) ā€¢ Context from the user feedback showing why this transparency is important ā€¢ Clear acceptance criteria for implementation This will help users understand exactly what goes into their financial projections! šŸ“Š
m
@prehistoric-motherboard-80539 there is a bug in the quiz feature where if you drag the slider everything works fine but if you manually type in the numbers it just says "calculating" forever
āœļø 1
p
šŸ” Found the bug! The issue is in 
SimulationControls.tsx
ā€¢ when you manually type values into input fields, they call 
onInteractionChange(true)
on focus but never call 
onInteractionChange(false)
on blur. This leaves the "calculating" state stuck forever. The sliders work fine because they properly reset the interaction state on mouseUp/touchEnd. View my proposed fix plan here The fix is simple: add 
onInteractionChange?.(false)
to all 4 input field onBlur handlers (retirement age, pre-spend, post-spend, net worth) right after the state update. Should I proceed with the fix? šŸ› ļø
m
AI is pretty cool! šŸ™‚
ā¤ļø 3
p
PR #148 was merged šŸŽ‰
m
infinite calculating when setting net worth is fixed
f
Does it always suggest Roth IRA?
Raising the retirement age beyond the first 15 years or so has no effect on the required income, it just raises the invested amount
m
I did not yet include optimizing between Roth and traditional.
Beyond the first 15 years?
f
Yes. Moving the retirement age slider between years 1-15 changes the required income. Beyond that there's no change
Actually, up to year 21 in my current test scenario
m
Can you dm me a link
Anyone have a better product name here besides for mine? 
Hishtadlus Laboratory
3 Views
Open in Slack
PreviousNext
Powered by