Something’s been weighing on my mind lately. Gemara says that blessing rests upon that which is hidden from the eye. I also seem to remember reading in a sefer that by counting his grain stores (i.e. money) a person doesn’t allow Hashem to “slip in” extra unnoticed. Some people also bring up ayin hara. Obviously this at face value seems to contradict the concept of budgeting. To make it personal, when I look at the budget I’ve started in YNAB and think about all the expenses I haven’t added in yet, it seems like there’s no way al pi teva that we should even be afloat and yet, we always scraped by - sometimes with a little extra. Also, I started making some goals for expenses last night, the biggest being car maintenance costs. This morning my car acted up making me very late to the job I desperately need to keep - BH I limped it there eventually. All of this doesn’t give me the warm and fuzzies. I’m already particularly “superstitious”. What am I missing? How can I reassure myself that I’m doing the right thing?

Hashkafically, you should read shaar habitachon • Paid: https://store.kehotonline.com/prodinfo.asp?number=EO-SHAAH.L • Free: https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/5407154/jewish/Shaar-Habitachon-Gate-of-Trust.htm Le’maise, you be studying our recommended personal finance resources. the podcasts and books will give you all the tools you need. And you can meet with me or my coaches or the YNAB team themselves for support.

Hashgacha pratis! My sister shetichyeh and I are setting up a chavrusa in Shaar haBitachon. I know I need to keep learning the personal finance fundamentals. It’s just finding a way to understand on a deeper level that it’s the right thing to do al pi Torah as well as derech hateva. Bli neder I should also discuss with my mashpia. Thank you as always for the guidance.

❤️

I've heard that when someone starts a new kabbalah, the yetzer hara often gives them a challenge right away to see if it will make them give up. in that light your car troubles mean that you're on the right track with budgeting 😆

The key is to be able to differentiate between a siman min hashamayim and the yetzer hara. I was taught that if you had a niggling doubt that perhaps you were doing the wrong thing and then an obstacle falls in your path, it's a sign from Hashem not to continue. But if you're doing the right thing, then an obstacle is just the yetzer hara. I've had the former many times. I'm saying over something that happened, and in the back of my mind I'm thinking maybe this could lead to lashon hara. Then my story gets interrupted and I accept it as a slap across the face. Sometimes lol

this is an interesting point to me. i often wondered the difference between 2 people in my life. person A has no idea of their finances, earns very little, literally doesnt know where their food for shabbos is coming from but loves living like this and loves the hashgacha of wow someone just gave me 400$ they owed me i forgot about lets go shabbos shopping. ie plenty room for Hashem to slip in all over the place. compare to person B who is budgeted and has money. i have observed the plenty places Hashem has slipped in for person B .. my conclusion is that Hashem doesnt have to work hard to give you financial gifts just because you have earmarked every penny according to you , you know where it is being spent and where it is coming from..

Or person C who learns who follows frum finance and uses shaar habitachon to create the right balance between the two extremes.

"Balance" is the operative word here. This is a very important discussion. Ideally, one should discuss it with his _rav_/_rebbi_/_moreh derech_. My r_osh yeshiva_, Rav Rueven Feinstein, often quotes us this gemara and recommends being fiscally responsible yet only keeping a somewhat liberal budget. Keep in mind: • He phrased it in terms of recommendation, not issur v'heter. • I don't know if he would advise the same to someone who has a habit of fiscal irresponsibility. The risk may outweigh the gain. • Likewise, perhaps Ramba"m's recommendation — of occupying the opposite extreme before coming to the healthy middle — may apply. • This is what one gadol says. There may be those who differ. Ask your own LOR.

I would hesitate to recommend asking one's LOR for personal finance advice based on what I have personal seen as answers, and I would equate it to going to your local shul rabbi for medical decisions or marriage counseling. One should work with their financial planner / frum.finance for practical guidance of what they need to be doing al pi derech hatevah as is instructed by shaar habitachon. For each persons situation, that would be a different level of depth of a budget which I go into with each family for actionable steps of what they need to be doing. A Rov won't know your financial situation well enough to provide the level of guidance here that is necessary to make these nuanced decisions.

I meant to speak with LOR about haskafa of finance, bitachon vs. hishtadlus, etc.

I mean, if they tell you budgeting is a safek in emunah (which I have heard) then it gets into tachlis

I'm not here to argue with anyone's hashkafa. I personally try to get guidance about these large general topics rather than DIYing it (i.e. only reading shaar habitachon).

Since I see the mess and am involved in a lot of the cleanup otherwise, I am definitely going to attempt to push specific guidance here that attempts to fix the issues (not DIY since we have a team and a community supporting everyone, which includes rabbonim) If I didn't push a specific haskafa it would be very hard to know what to do practically. But I totally hear you not wanting to

I think many rabbonim would strongly support following the approaches you list. My main points were that the topic was an important one and that, as with most things in life, balance is the key.

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The main question for a mashpia in this regard to me is a hashkafic one. As a Lubavitcher, I simply want find out where personal finance fits into the Rebbe’s Torah and what he wants from his Chasidim or how much room he gives us. As well as what the Chosid should be learning (in addition to Shaar haBitachon 😉) to help him close the gap. I am fortunate that my mashpia already knows my financial situation and I can come to him with financial, emotional, practical and mental health questions and get a deeper answer than “learn Chassidus!”

A mashpia might know your financial situation but not know finances. I have had multiple lubavitch mashpias give people reckless advice bc they are not financially aware themselves.

There are plenty of mashpiim who don’t know finances. There are those who do. I trust mine to tell me when he’s out of his element (he’s done it before). I see your point but especially for someone whose Yiddishkeit and Chassidishkeit are still quite fresh I don’t see the harm in guidance from a mashpia.

I'll introduce you then to all the people that have had irreparable damage done to their finances bc of their Rabonim or Mashpias. Side effects include but are not limited to: • Not allowed life insurance • Not allowed to budget • Not allowed to carry any money from one year to the next (donate everything you have at the end of each year) • Not allowed to own investments

I don’t think we should be writing these things off. If a person’s idea of hishtadlus is such that any of those things becomes a problem, I envy them. Granted these people are probably not approaching frum.finance. The problem - and it sounds like we’re saying the same thing here - is when a mashpia or rov makes such a din because he lacks the knowledge and fails to educate or recuse himself, or escalate the matter. As for me personally, I trust my mashpia to not only make the best decisions, but ask the right questions to help draw out my own hashkafic inclination within the Rebbe’s framework.

I think my Rav would look at me very strangely if I asked him whether I'm allowed to budget or save money 😂 But I suppose I never would have gravitated towards a Rav with such diametrically opposite viewpoints to my own

the one where they had to donate money at the end of the year, was that a cult?

My rov would definitely refer people to me who asked him such questions lol

Okay, life insurance I get. Why no stock?

The no stock issue only exists within Chabad because of what I believe to be a misunderstanding of the what the Rebbe said. He said to stay away from the stock market and then proceeds to describe the problems with day trading. I think it's very clear he was telling people not to day trade, but he didn't use clear enough language so there are the < 10% of mashipas that tell people they can't own stock. I am hoping to get all the Rabonim together I can to get a teshuva put together to correct this misunderstanding (one day). (I know the grandson of the person who managed the Rebbe's stock portfolio)

I would've guessed that people had a hashkafic issue with the company they were investing in, if they sell non kosher wine or some other issur

bc maybe they don't hold of bittle beshishim?

I've never heard of this shittah - it was just a guess based on the concept of "ethical investing" in the non Jewish world

gotcha

To loop it back to the initial recommendation of learning Shaar haBitachon - https://chat.whatsapp.com/Fp4oxBdYn0FLTq48c5D05I is a WhatsApp group that just started a regular shiur.

does shaar habitachon address budgeting or spending within your means?? if so, not remembering that part

I have heard someone tell me he was told not to get life insurance on hashkafic grounds. I don't know his source. It seems to me to run contrary to the main body of contemporary rabbinic thought. (For instance, see: https://thelakewoodscoop.com/news/life-insurance-in-halacha-rabbi-binyomin-radner/)

yes it goes in contrary to most poskim, but there are many people that are not allowed to get life insurance which has landed us with a fringe policy that allows you to get frum finance assistance without life insurance with a proper psak from a rov banning you from life insurance

I am trying to parse your statement. To be clear, are you saying that Frum.finance requires someone to have life insurance in order to get assistance, unless he has a psak banning him from getting it? (I think the word "policy" in the context of insurance is throwing me off.)

what source in halacha could be used to assur insurance?