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# durable-objects
  • g
    Never played with this particular library (and not suggesting it at all), but that's the sort of thing I had in my head.
  • k
    ahhh gotcha, so basically sending serialized operations?
  • g
    Yeah. Maybe you could wrap the whole thing in a string so we could write SQL-esque queries at it, but yes: 1) serialize the transaction 2) send to the DO 3) unwrap the serialized form into a set of instructions 4) perform instructions in a transaction 5) return values
  • g
    Quite a serious undertaking, and I'm not sure how possible or feasible it would be.
  • g
    I think unless you perform the work on the DO though, you'll always get inconsistency bugs somewhere.
  • g
    Some thoughts about how you could do transactions in GraphQL: https://discuss.dgraph.io/t/transactions-in-graphql/6861 And why that might be a bad idea: https://graphqlme.com/2018/05/13/transactions-mutations-and-graphql/
  • k
    Yeah... that's what I'm wondering. May be better to simply expose methods on the DO, and pass simple values to the methods for outside input... and/or some of the slightly-weird-but-functional (pun intended) syntax of 
    await durable.prop(newValue)
    mentioned above
  • g
    Yup, that's literally the TL;DR of both those posts, I think haha
  • k
    I'm just stoked that we'll be able to abstract ANY of this boilerplate away, and stoked what DOs allow us to do in the first place... the pains I ran into with sync issues on a pure KV backend, oh man
  • i
    Just out of curiosity, has anyone done any benchmarks on durable objects? for example to see the latency between a parent worker and do
  • k
    Yeah this will be the next approach... great points you and @User made!
  • m
    @User an alternative to transactions would be implementing promise pipelining/eventual send, ala CapTP (https://github.com/Agoric/agoric-sdk/tree/master/packages/captp), which would allow you to chain operations and then send them as a single request. I haven't played with CapTP in particular, but capnproto RPC (which is used heavily in the Workers Runtime) supports promise pipelining, and it's quite nice to have.
  • m
    Proxy and related classes like WeakRef/WeakMap were actually proposed and added to JS by the folks behind CapTP/Agoric for implementing things like this
  • k
    Yeah @User that’s what I was thinking for even the await setter syntax - setters would pipeline a set operation to send to the durable 👍🏼
  • l
    Not sure how performant layered proxies are
  • l
    But magic sure is fun
  • l
    The only library I know that uses them en masse is https://github.com/nx-js/observer-util
  • k
    I mean I wouldn't do that if max throughput was needed, but I suspect anything that needed to be that performant would be isolated to execute within the DO itself, not sent as proxied fetches one a time
  • l
    So may be lessons hiding there
  • k
    You may have found me a new toy for Preact @User!
  • k
    looks like a cleaner mobx
  • k
    and only 1.9k vs mobx 16k (before react/preact bindings)
  • l
    The other possibility is to use the usual set syntax without the ability to await: updates local state immediately and fires off the request to the DO in parallel to handle changes to persistent storage
  • l
    observer-util is a lot of fun! I used it in a scrappy lightweight production app without much trouble. If you're familiar with the nanohtml (previously bel) ecosystem, https://github.com/lukeburns/morphable was my attempt at introducing a reactive layer on top.
  • k
    Yeah there’s def no point in awaiting the set regardless - as others pointed out, that’s awaiting nothing... so may as well fire off the async behind the scenes and use a get or expose a .done() or something on the stub to confirm all promises are resolved
  • a
    Hey everyone, I've been digging into durable objects and getting pretty excited about them. One thing I'm trying to figure out now is the development flow for them. Is there an easy way to run the workers and durable objects locally while developing?
  • k
    not that i'm aware of... durables don't currently work with 
    wrangler dev
  • o
    that escalated quickly 😄
  • a
    yeah that was my understanding too. I'm guessing really the only way to develop is to publish the worker
  • k
    Yes, sadly, that's the only way right now. We know this is a big problem. Durable Objects present a whole lot of new challenges to how we do previews, so we need some more time to build it out, but we're working on it.
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