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# off-topic
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 1:31 PM
It's a cool feature, but is it required for Javascript? I mean, if we add all good features of other languages, like this feature from Elixir (and maybe Rust), Javascript will become a more messy language
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 1:42 PM
I've got two questions in response to your question haha 1. "Is it required for Javascript?" What features of a language would you consider to be something that is required for them? For example fat functions weren't always a language feature, and we didn't need them because we had function.prototype.bind() and function.prototype.apply(). 2. "JavaScript will become a more messy language" What makes a language more or less messy to you? Pattern matching from my understanding helps the JIT (Just in time compiler) to make educated guesses about the execution flow of a program. With if statements, I think that while there are some optimizations possible, in most cases if statements are unknowns to the JIT and therefore every time the JIT hits a new value for the entrypoint of a set of conditionals, it has to rebuild it's representation of the function in bytecode. From the developer experience I think this article explains it much better than I could: https://medium.com/digitalfrontiers/a-case-for-pattern-matching-b43a5c9796b8
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 1:49 PM
A language becomes messy when there is too much ways to make the same thing. It's what Javascript is and becomes more. A feature is required when there is a lot of people asking for it because of a real need.
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 1:50 PM
@Olyno What constitutes a "real need"? I'd say that a JavaScript language feature doesn't reach TC39 Stage 2 approval without a lot of the JS community asking for it
> A language becomes messy when there is too much ways to make the same thing Would you say that JavaScript is already messy then? We have many different ways to loop: .map .forEach for(i=0; i<someArr.length; i++) for(key in object) for(var of iterable) while(somecondition) do...while function f() { f() }
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 1:54 PM
Let's take the example of a beginner in Javascript. It's probably the hardest language i know to getting started
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 1:56 PM
What makes it hard to get started with? The toolchain or something else?
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 1:56 PM
Honestly, i just saw this line, i fell from my chair ahah
The language itself, there is too much things to know
I did a small job during my studies where i did teach Javascript to beginners, and i can assure you it's really hard
You have too much tools, too much possibilities.... which is awesome when you know well js, but is the hell when you're getting started
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 1:58 PM
Beginner coders or beginner javascript coders? And what was the purpose of them being taught? To work on existing codebases?
Reason I'm asking these questions is that Python is considered a good first language to learn for new coders, but it's INCREDIBLY complex.
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 1:59 PM
python is a good language for new coders
Javascript is not
For me, the real easiest language to start with is Skript. It's a language created from a Minecraft plugin, and it's very intuitive. It allows anyone to learn: - Logic - English Language - Conditions - Types - Functions - Variables And so on. Really underestimated language, but i started with it, and i'm happy now :p
Also, a big pros about the Skript language is you see what you do (in Minecraft). When you write a function to spawn a mob, you see the mob spawning... you don't see what is happening in other languages, you mainly code blindly, and sometimes you're getting weird errors with complex lines that you never heard about
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 2:03 PM
I'd argue that you could get the same results from a properly constructed game engine with a js scripting interface.
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 2:05 PM
hmm, not really. Did you already try to read an angular error? My eyes are bleeding 😂
I take you the Angular example, but it's the same with a lot of Js tools
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 2:05 PM
But that has nothing to do with the language 😂
Have you tried to read a java error? If you found an issue with skript that's what you'd find
I detest java hahaha
I don't think limiting language features for beginner devs is a good move; seeing if they fit in the language's existing paradigm is a good thought though which I'd agree with
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 2:07 PM
Honestly, Java errors are much more better than JS errors 😂
Do you want a secret? I'm creating a Kahoot v2 platform 👀 (not yet, but planned)
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 2:08 PM
I have no idea what Kahoot is haha
Sorry
Can you interpret this error?
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 2:09 PM
Scanner is not imported ahah
Cannot find symbol == Cannot find this thing
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 2:09 PM
Yeah but what's a symbol? XD
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 2:09 PM
Well, when you know symbol == thing, it is more clear xD
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 2:10 PM
For sure
But that's clear as anything in JS is haha
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 2:10 PM
xD
i guess the best language to have good errors is probably Elixir. I didn't make any project with this language, but looks so good
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 2:11 PM
You'd like Crystal Lang I reckon then
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 2:11 PM
Negative, i don't like Crystal
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 2:11 PM
😮
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 2:11 PM
The reason is simple: there is no native support to Windows 😂
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 2:11 PM
Windows language support is kinda non-issue tho
Cause you can compile with cygwin or wsl2
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 2:13 PM
Weeeeeell, i never used wsl 😅
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 2:13 PM
Oh! Well you're missing out. It's great!
You have a whole linux life arc waiting to happen XD
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 2:14 PM
xD
Probably, i'm waiting for the final version of Window: Linux transition xD
It's just getting started, i'm waiting the end
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 2:14 PM
Well all my computers are windows
But I use a linux server hosted in linode
And vscode server to it
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 2:15 PM
Ooooh, Vscode server 😮
i have only 1 computer with Window now, because i'm kinda disappointed by Window in a lot of ways (incompatibility with dev tools, blue screens and so on)
I'm using Deepin for my work laptop, and works fine so far. I'm waiting to see Cutefish OS too
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 2:16 PM
👍
We need a profiles page somewhere so we can link to each-others twitter and other social media
Could follow a blog if you had one for example
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 2:19 PM
All my links are in my Discord profile, and i'm using dev.to as blog platform, too lazy to create my own 😅 (if i understood correctly what you meant )
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 2:20 PM
This is all I see?
Maybe I'm missing a part of discord I didn't know existed
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 2:21 PM
Here
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 2:22 PM
lol ok found it!
The twitter link in your github profile is broken?
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 2:23 PM
Is it? 🤔
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 2:24 PM
Works from your website tho
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 2:24 PM
Oooooh wait, there is a "o" missing at the end of "Olyn" xD
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 2:24 PM
Also you link to your personal protected twitter from your profile rather than your work profile haha
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 2:24 PM
Waait, this is weird, i just checked and i don't have this issue
You have both 😝
Removed it :p
Oooooooooooh heeeeeere
Fixed Thanks you!
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jaitaiwan

07/10/2022, 2:28 PM
No worries!
I'm @jaitaiwan pretty much everywhere on the web
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Olyno

07/10/2022, 2:30 PM
Ah got you!
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silentworks

07/10/2022, 3:03 PM
I'm getting in here late, but I love Crystal Lang
I too does not use WSL, just plain old Powershell on Windows, but I do have a MacBook Pro too. And yes Crystal Lang not having native windows support is one of the reason I stopped looking into it.
After reading through some of the bun.sh code I think I might take a look into zig language now. The syntax looks close enough to JavaScript.
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