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Hey all - can anybody help me out here? Got a Wind...
# microsoft-os
j
Hey all - can anybody help me out here? Got a Windows 11 image which is (allegedly) un-customized, yet I see this weird "Category View". Now I was assuming this was an in-house customization as it looks very tailored to the business, what with the folders and all, but no-one in the business seems to know where it has come from. Is this a new Windows 11 thing? But the weirdest thing is, if I change to "List" view - as soon as a gpupdate happens, it switches back to this initial "Category" view. There are no Group Policies overriding the Registry value that drives this (AllAppsViewMode), and the weirder thing I've noticed is if I run a ProcMon, the process resetting this value is StartMenuExperienceHost.exe, not any SYSTEM process that I'd expect if it was the GP engine. I'm really confused. Anyone seeing anything similar on latest Win11 builds? This is 26200.8524 with all patches including optionals. And if this is something that is done by customization, how is it done and/or enforced?
n
I don't know how to manage it but I read about this change a month or so ago - it's enabled in a specific Microsoft KB patch.
j
Don't suppose you have any links, or know if the categorization is done in any particular way? It looks buggy to me - it keeps resetting the values back to "Category"
n
Well, let me clarify... I think the patch enables the ability for the change. It's one of those 'we are rolling this out slowly' deals.
j
Well bugger me. I've spent all day fighting with this, now I find out it is MS doing it 😞 I think it has a bug in it. Can anyone else confirm, if they change from Category to List, if you run a gpupdate, does it revert back to Category view? (I am spinning up a lab machine to test, but given that my lab has been off for months, just going through a million updates and issues first, so thanks to anyone who can maybe confirm quicker)
n
Looks like it's limited to 24H2 and 25H2... we are sadly behind and everything is 23H2 which would explain why we don't see it.
Not really the same scenario, but the gaming laptop I just got my kid has 25H2 and I know it has category view. Let me see how hers reacts.
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j
My kids can't even upgrade to Win11 otherwise they'd have been hijacked by now
There is also a GPO to disable Category View, so that might be a workaround if it is a bug
n
Hers seems to stick even after running gpudpate.
j
Argh! Which means it is something environmental....I feel like Pacino on Godfather 3
Cheers for testing anyways 👍
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Turns out there is a GPO to "Hide Category View" at User Config | Admin Templates | Start Menu and Taskbar, but in a completely unsurprising revelation, the GPO applies successfully but seems to do nothing to change the view from Category :-(
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So, there is definitely something bug-ish hiding inside this new Category View on Windows 11. I have a customer where running a gpupdate always resets the view to Category View, and it is StartMenuExperienceHost.exe which overwrites the Registry value that controls it. I have also, after a lot of faffing, managed to recreate the same issue intermittently in my lab. So if you get this new Category View, which comes down and is activated with the May/June Win11 patches, if your users decided to switch to List view, you may see it spontaneously adjusting itself back to Category View during Group Policy background refresh. I've yet to nail it down to a particular set of circumstances (as I said, I have one environment where it is recreatable, and another where it can be triggered somewhat haphazardly), but will update as soon as I can understand it better. In my lab, after logon, if you run gpupdate /force you are switched back to Category View from List, but only the first time after logon. In my customer environment, gpupdate on its own triggers the switch every time.
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n
j
Plot thickening - this appears to be connected to anything configured under User GPOs (Admin Templates | Start Menu and Taskbar). Remove these items, and it stops happening. Also, if you have "Configure Registry policy processing" set to "Apply even if no changes detected", then the problem will manifest simply by running gpupdate - if you do not have this setting configured, you must run gpupdate /force
Gonna have to solve this soon or I'll end up writing a blog post after I swore off doing them 🙂
n
I wouldn't bother writing a blog, come next month the start layout will change again. This is why I tell all my customers that want to listen - don't use the start menu to find apps use search or pin to task bar, and secondly give up on customising this stuff, you'll only be disappointed when MS change the goal posts
j
Good point
n
"You'll only be disappointed" is actually Microsoft's slogan...
n
Btw - I'm using a Cloud Native device and I have the issue. But only just notice as I don't use the “disappointing” start menu
j
Interesting. A workgroup-joined device seems to be unaffected
n
Cloud-native devices like mine can still have policies applied using Intune - however I don't recall setting any start menu and task bar settings in Intune, so while it's sort of a “workgroup” it's not really
j
@Nathan Sperry, on that device you can replicate the issue on, do you have anything present in these Registry keys - HKCU\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Explorer\ HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\Explorer\
So as far as I can tell (maybe I'm getting excited here, but it's been a long day), I think if you have any GPOs defined that write to HKCU\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Explorer, when you run gpupdate /force (or plain old gpupdate if you have the setting to always refresh Registry policies applied even if they haven't changed), your Start Menu layout gets overwritten. I fully anticipate a further update in a couple of hours about how I am mistaken.
n
I have this registry key but no values inside it HKCU\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Explorer\ This key HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\Explorer\ does not exist
j
Seems to be the top one that's the kicker (at least in my case). If you delete the one you have, do you still see the issue?
n
Just deleted it, will let you know
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j
n
So powered on the laptop this morning, it’s reverted back to the Cat view, and the empty “Explorer” policy key is back. I've deleted it again and I'll see what happens today. I have no user policies that manage anything in the start menu or taskbar - so where the empty key is coming from idk
j
The mysteries of Windows 🙂 I've just tested on my customer and clearing the key in question (not deleting it) seems to resolve the issue, obviously some tattooing going on.
n
fYI- It's reverted back, but registry key under HKCU has not reappeared. I do have some explorer policies set under HKLM namely “Disallow Autoplay”. Let's see if MS ever acknowledges the issue, I doubt it
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j
Apparently a fix for this is now rolling out - learn.microsoft.com/en-us/…/build-26100-8968-26200-8968
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