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# citrix-vads
Slackbot
09/25/2023, 4:57 PMThis message was deleted.
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Rob Zylowski
09/25/2023, 5:16 PMI think your only choice thats not a persistent desktop is the user personalization layer which allows users to install many/most apps. But its not perfect so i would pilot for a while before deciding.
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jvitech
09/25/2023, 9:06 PMI've got similar setup, sometimes you can't recover a VM (bad patch, use mess up,etc). I automated the software stack deployment using a software delivery tool, Zoho cheap and good. You can roam the user profile using UPM/FsLogix.
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James Kindon
09/25/2023, 9:11 PMI’m kinda scratching my head that 1) The crash physically destroys the VM and 2) there is not a backup/recovery option?
Even if you automate the build (which is a great idea), surely backups would be saving you here?
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Chai
09/26/2023, 5:07 AM@James Kindon Upper management doesn't want to spend money on VDIs backups. So that option doesnt apply.
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James Kindon
09/26/2023, 5:11 AMYou can't fix stupid
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Chai
09/26/2023, 5:16 AMlol
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Jeremy Saunders
09/26/2023, 5:17 AMGiven that you have 500 users, I assume you have a large number of VDIs to match?
Jeremy Saunders
09/26/2023, 5:22 AMI would automate the build, including apps install, and use PVS if possible with UPM to keep it simple. PyCharm and Visual Studio are fine on non-persistent machines. This at the very least limits the risk, reduces admin and enhances the user experience. But that's a whole project in itself if you're not already doing any of that.
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Chai
09/26/2023, 5:25 AMI gave it a thought but not all developers use same apps. So, for now, I am leaning towards a PVS (or MCS) non persistent VDI setup and install dev apps in a server catalog and provide access to those apps to the devs as needed. If anyone comes up with a new app, we publish it and provide access to that dev user. Only challenge is if they ask for multiple versions of same software. We might end up creating multiple app servers for this.
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James Kindon
09/26/2023, 5:31 AMWhat platform are you running these workloads on?
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Chai
09/26/2023, 5:31 AMesxi
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James Kindon
09/26/2023, 5:57 AMesxi is corrupting your vms? That sounds like some chaos right there. There are multiple cheap and even some free backup toolsets that would help you out, everything else is going to add complexity and overhead that doesn't make much sense
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Chai
09/26/2023, 5:58 AMThere is a lot going on, on the VMware end. We are using very old hardware because of which VMs do not power on or crash all of sudden. So, I am looking at other alternatives.
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James Kindon
09/26/2023, 6:06 AMouch - doesn't sound like management are making your life easy. 500 Dev Desktops is nothing to laugh at or skimp on - wonder if they have calculated lost time based on skimping on a platform to support the workload
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Chai
09/26/2023, 6:08 AMSo, going back, I can use a non persistent VDI but what are the different options in deploying apps to these users?
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James Kindon
09/26/2023, 7:38 AMStick them all on the image and AppMask them like a boss. If you need different versions you’ll likely (not always but often) need a replica image
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jvitech
09/26/2023, 10:49 AMI'm doing an hybrid on PVS RDSH/W16 non-persistent for some devs to save on the VDI persistent but it did work only for some teams. Very complex and everybody is looking for a VDI. We fight hard to keep them on non-persistent. If you go down this path good luck.
Go Cloud and sell the green BS to your management 😅
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