tech-career-discussions
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    bumpy-manchester-70989

    10/31/2022, 6:33 AM
    Hey TCG, I recently got a full-time offer from the startup I was interning at (which meant a negotation opportunity) Thankfully, I was able to negotiate for a higher pay without any other offers as leverage. Here are some key points that I found on the internet (mostly on reddit) as extremely 💡invaluable: (They are not all perfectly compatible as every person has their own take. Still, try to get the gist of what they are saying.) 1. As far as technique goes, there might be a little more subtle-ty to the language used, but the gist of it is, "You guys are offering x, this other company is offering x + Δ, but I like you guys better than them, so can you please raise my offer by Δ?” 2. The first rule of negotiating is being prepared to walk away, or for them to. Some companies will see negotiating as you being difficult and will walk away from the table. Now generally, that's fine. You don't really want to work for that kind of company anyway. But if them walking would be very undesirable, you may want to think long and hard about negotiating. 3. Salary negotiations upon job offers are different. You don't need to be prepared to walk away. The company has already put time/effort/money into making you the offer. They make the offer assuming you'll negotiate. They're already prepared to pay a little more. Even if they're not, there's no way they're going to rescind the offer and start all over again. That's insane. 4. ◦ In my experience, companies don't withdraw a job offer simply because you negotiate. In fact, they rarely/never say no. They just counteroffer. So here's what you do:
    Have a 10k range in mind. Research the market and your company on <http://glassdoor.com|glassdoor.com> and <http://salary.com|salary.com> etc. so your range is realistic.
        
    Have reasons for the increase. For simplicity, they offer you 100k and you want 110k - 120k. Create at least 3 reasons. One of them can be external factors like the market or cost of living or student loans but the other two should be about your worth. Such as, "I learned a lot as an intern here and I now have x,y,z value." Or now you have a degree. Now you know the company's systems so you can hit the ground running. Or you have x, y, z accomplishments during your internship. Or you'll be doing more complex work. Write these down and rehearse a little so you can say them naturally.
        
    Don't make any ultimatums. Just say something like, "I'm excited about the offer, and this company is my first choice, but I want to push back a little on the salary because <insert very brief summary of 1 main reason here>. I'm thinking of something in the 110k-120k range. Would <company name> consider that?
    Here's what will happen: They might just say okay. They might say they'll talk to someone. They might give you some counter-reasons for no increase. That's when you elaborate and bring up your additional reasons. At any rate, it will probably end in a counter offer. If you say 110k-120k, they might offer 115k. In this example, be prepared to accept 115k at most — they're not going to offer you 120k. But if their previous offer was 100k, they might offer you 105k. But if they offer you 105k, say "Could you approve 110?" Only push back once, then accept their answer. Here's how you exit the negotiations: In our example, if they offer 115k, say "That's great. Thanks." If they offer 100k - 110k and you've tried to push back once and they've stayed firm, ask about opportunities for an expanded role after your annual review. They'll vaguely talk about possibilities for promotion. Say, "Okay, that sounds good, it's a deal." Even if you still only get 100k, you've planted a seed for next year. Work toward that promotion and if you don't get it, start interviewing elsewhere next year. Never, never not negotiate. Always, always negotiate. You'll never lose the offer and it makes the company view you more favorably. Now, about interviewing with other companies: Yeah, it would be good for you to send out some resumes. But if that feels overwhelming right now, don't worry about it. You already have a job offer so give yourself a break. However, if they ask, "Are you considering other offers?" just say you're in the interview stages at a couple of places. Don't say you're considering other offers because you're not. If you say you are, they'll ask how much, what the company name is, etc. and if they don't match the offer they'll be confused about why you accepted the job with them. Just say "I'm interviewing at other places, but this is my first choice." If this feels too fake, you can say you're "in the application process" or you're "considering some other opportunities." Always say "but this is my first choice." If they ask where, you can either just give them a couple of big company names (who's gonna know?) or say you don't feel comfortable saying. (You could even say one place had you sign an NDA and even though you know you could still say you interviewed there you're afraid you'll slip and start talking about the products.) But they won't ask where. In the future: Raises are usually around 4% in tech, but promotions and job changes are 10-20%. Every year or two, look around for a new opportunity. ◦ If you give them a range of acceptable salaries, why would they ever give you more than the lowest of that range? They probably will offer you the lowest. Then you offer back the middle. Then they say yes. In OP's case, they've already offered an amount. So there's a bunch of numbers: ▪︎ Original offer ▪︎ Middle range between original offer and proposed range bottom ▪︎ Proposed range bottom ▪︎ Proposed range middle (This is the number you actually want.) ▪︎ Proposed range top (You will almost never get this number, so don't try to negotiate hard for it unless you really don't want the job otherwise. It's just there so that you can get the "proposed range middle.") You should be trying for "proposed range middle" but might get offered "middle range between original offer and proposed range bottom." Typically, either you or the company states a salary range before you get to the offer stage. Which means typically there's only 3 numbers: bottom, middle, top. They almost always offer bottom, you almost always counter with top (stating some reasons), they offer the middle, and you accept. The only time you'd negotiate hard for the top is if you have exceptional qualifications and other options. If you have to accept the bottom, do so under the guise of "future promotions/opportunities. 5. Although it's much easier to negotiate when you have other interviews lined up, or better yet a competing offer. But even if you have neither, unless the salary/job is perfect (which as you said it's not in this case), you should negotiate. It's a candidate's market, any recruiter that tells you otherwise is lying. Be patient, don't press them, don't use strong words (say something like "that's a really interesting number, but to be honest I was hoping for more"). Let them do more of the talking. An extra 5k, 10k or even 50k might not be a drop in the hiring budget bucket especially at larger companies. I was recently able to get an additional 30k by getting two competing offers and just consistently reiterating that they were the company I wanted to work for, but it has to be a good financial choice too. 6. Always negotiate. It’s expected, appreciated even. It’s proof you were the right person.
  • g

    great-room-31633

    11/05/2022, 2:07 PM
    Hey I'll be starting my first job after ~6 months and have been assigned Frontend role. I interned at the same company, and I feel like the scope of Frontend is limited (for promotions after SDE2) as all the complex stuff (like DBs, indexing, sharding, optimizations) happens in backend and it's easier to show impact by saying we did this which increased the speed by x saving us y money whereas frontend is mostly just you have design and you code it up. So, am I thinking correct? Should I try to shift to backend after 1-2 years for long-term career growth? Any insights will be helpful. Thanks 🙂
  • a

    ambitious-art-93723

    11/05/2022, 6:42 PM
    Hey everyone, I’m currently working as an Embedded Software Engineer for 4 years with the same organisation. I’m in the process of trying to figure out a path to progress my career for which I need some advice. Here is a little background about me -1. The current nature of my role has kept my dev tasks mostly focused on application level development. Due to this, I feel that I have not gained enough expertise in my area of technology to show for 4 years of experience 2. The company being a startup, I’ve been exposed to and gained skills in a few areas of my interest like technical writing, project management and quality compliance management but not been able to establish expertise in any one area in particular. Most of these have been on a on-need basis only 3. I don't wish to pursue a dev career further but unable to make a formal switch to my above mentioned areas of interest within my company. Also, my observation is that my current high compensation is a disadvantage while applying to entry-level roles in these areas 4. I’m looking for suggestions on a path to proceed with respect to making a move from dev and also any role/ job profile suggestions which would allow me to use my existing dev knowledge and enhance my skills in technical writing and project management
  • f

    fancy-fish-97914

    11/06/2022, 7:17 PM
    Hi folks, _As a fresh grad, w_hat would make you take a job at an early-stage startup (profitable, high-growth, 20-mil series A with < 20 employees) over Google or top quant finance/market making companies ? Pros for startup • More technical scope • Wearing more hats • Getting exposure to operational side of startups - VC, sales, marketing etc • Faster-paced engineering culture • Chance of a much faster career growth Cons • lower base pay • less prestigious than Google, Two Sigma, etc, unless the startup does very well • Lower technical specialization • Worse WLB than Google, likely better than quant finance Curious to hear how you'd evaluate these options and what information you'd want to make a good decision.
  • b

    brave-afternoon-42161

    11/07/2022, 12:58 PM
    What is everyone’s opinion around big tech companies and lay offs currently? I was going to join one of the FAANG companies however, I feel that it might not be safe during recession. I am thinking to get into FAANG later after economy settles down and take a bigger title at a smaller/mid-size company for now and then get that bigger title at a big tech company later as a long term goal and short term job security.
  • b

    brave-afternoon-42161

    11/07/2022, 2:02 PM
    UPDATE: Also, my friends at Meta are saying they are going to announce layoffs tomorrow (Wednesday Nov. 9,2022)
  • p

    powerful-terabyte-43013

    11/11/2022, 9:49 PM
    Hey TCG community, hope you guys are well. This might not be the right area to ask this but any advice or tips for applying for an MSCS at Stanford?
  • m

    mysterious-alarm-969

    11/11/2022, 11:09 PM
    Hello, I am graduating in May 2023, and currently doing my IT masters. I have been applying for jobs in software engineering and I have no prior experience as I did my undergrad in India and graduated in July 2020 and than the pandemic appeared. Later after I applied for Masters in IT and currently enrolled. Coming from from Chemical Engineering background, I gained my skills in Python and Javascript and SQL and now doing Type Script In this situation what I can do to get job as in entry level or with zero experience. If I can get some help i'll be very thankful for it.
  • g

    gorgeous-artist-17896

    11/17/2022, 6:35 AM
    Hey guys, Tuesday next week will mark the completion of my first year as a Software Engineer. I am self-taught, and have a bachelor/master in Economics and Finance. Although the practical experience from working is constantly making me a more proficient developer, I feel like I am lacking a strong theoretical foundation, and I am not sure if that could be a hindrance long-term for my career. I am therefore considering doing a Master's in CS. I was hoping maybe some of you more experienced people could help answer some questions I have about all of this: I am considering a few different options: Georgia Tech, online master's in CS (OMSCS) A respectable and top-tier CS degree. It is a Master of Science degree, equivalent to their on-site degree. Very low tuition cost ($7k!) https://pe.gatech.edu/degrees/computer-science Pros High quality education, resume booster, big learning opportunity, very low costCons Very intensive and time consuming, will likely have to take their edX course on Data Structures & Algorithms before applying, and still no guarantee of admission University of York, online master's in CS A good UK university. Conversion degree (tailored to people with non-CS background) Part-time study for 2 years (as UK master's are only 1 year full-time). Reasonable tuition cost (£8640) https://online.york.ac.uk/study-online/msc-computer-science-online/ Pros Likely easier to keep up for me, as it is made for people with non-CS backgrounds, lower time commitment,Cons Less reputable than Georgia, lesser learning opportunities (conversion degree, not regular master's), conversion degree perhaps not as respected in industry University of Pennsylvania, online master's in Computer and Information Technology (MCIT) Also a very respected institution. Also conversion degree (tailor to non-CS background) https://gradadm.seas.upenn.edu/masters/computer-and-information-technology-mcit/ Pros Ivy League School, High quality, resume booster, big learning opportunityCons Not Computer Science degree (maybe don't matter?), higher cost (~$26k), time intensive and more competitive admission than York Hardvard Extension School, Master of Liberal Arts in Extension Studies, Software Engineering Online Master's in Software Engineering https://extension.harvard.edu/academics/programs/software-engineering-graduate-program/ Pros Ivy League school, online and flexible schedule, resume booster, big learning opportunity, can actually attend in person or onlineCons Liberal Arts in Extension Studies on diploma. Does not make sense for engineering. Seems like they are putting up a wall between the extension school and their on-site programs, Higher cost than other options (~$38k) At the moment, I am leaning towards Georgia Tech (if I can get in), as it is a high quality education for very little money. It's seems to be most bang for the buck. I am a bit concerned about admission, as it is not tailored for people with non-CS background, I would likely have to take their recommended course in Data Structures & Algos before applying, and could still end up getting rejected. I do have some concerns with the regular CS degrees:1. Having no CS undergrad, it will be hard to keep up 2. Having no CS undergrad, it will be very time intensive to take graduate courses 3. How math-heavy some of the classes might be I was therefore considering the following plan: 1. Using Khan Academy to brush up on linear algebra, discrete mathematics, and some calculus 2. Take the Data Structures & Algos course from Georgia Tech 3. Apply to Georgia Tech 4. If rejected, try for MCIT or University of York If you guys have any feedback on this plan of attack, any advice on how I best prepare, improve my admission chances, or simply have experience with any of these programs (or recommendations for others), I would much appreciate it. Also, some of my colleagues think I should forget about school and just focus on working, while other agree that a Master in CS would be worth it. What do you guys think? And do you believe that taking a conversion degree, which starts out with some undergrad courses before switching to graduate courses, would be better for me? Do you believe it will look better on my resume to just stick it out with a regular master instead of a conversion degree?
  • b

    bulky-pillow-4357

    11/19/2022, 8:36 PM
    Hello, I have a problem with my resume. I attended an engineering school where I studied CS, and I only attended the engineering school for 3 months when I should have been there for 5 years because I had a severe health problem and could not attend the engineering school. I still want to put in my resume that I attended this engineering school. I have more than 6 years of experience in software development. How should I list my CS study time on my resume? Thanks in advance!
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    faint-van-60206

    11/19/2022, 8:43 PM
    Hi all. I have a question and looking for some advice. I am a career changer and in April I managed to get into a government funded software development apprenticeship. The first 3 months I was training with an apprenticeship provider which was preparing you for any Dev role. Then after 3 months you join the company and they place you in a specific team. I have been added to the android team which I quite enjoy but there is a problem. We have been taught in the training to pair program and TDD....both of these are non existent in the team and maybe in the company. To complete the apprenticeship I need another year and half it feels that the lack of these 2 things might impact my learning...what would you recommend I do?
  • b

    billowy-florist-81802

    11/19/2022, 8:59 PM
    Hey all, I've been thinking about a knowledge-sharing problem my team has, and would be happy to hear your thoughts. I have at least one teammate who constantly asks for documentation so that she can ramp up in a technical domain she is working in. The documentation topics range from how an application works to an API design on what request fields are required/optional + sample request payloads to run the application successfully. The problem here I see is two-fold: • many times, my team doesn't have the kind of documentation she is looking for. So she and those she asks for help spend cycles to get her up to speed • even if I or another teammate were to write that documentation for her, that's one more artifact my team has to maintain over time. It doesn't help that our documents get outdated quickly due to how rapidly our applications evolve, given our rather large intake As a senior team member, I want to help keep this knowledge fresh for not just her, but the rest of my team too. What advice does the community have here? One thing I have tried is leading a knowledge transfer on a project that I've been heavily involved in before leaving for a 2-week vacation. It helps ramp my teammates up, should they need to get their hands dirty in this project too, but it doesn't solve the rapidly-evolving knowledge side of the problem. There seems to be a hard tradeoff between having something in writing to ramp up teammates versus how quickly that knowledge can get stale.
  • m

    most-microphone-23787

    11/21/2022, 12:55 AM
    Hey guys! Bit unrelated to the actual career part but what can an early career engineer do to avoid RSI in the long-term? Do ergonomic office items like the Kinesis Advantage keyboard or HM Aeron actually help prevent injury? Hoping I can get a response from some of the veterans 😅
  • l

    late-truck-73964

    11/21/2022, 6:31 AM
    what is the future of native android development as a career ?
  • o

    orange-pillow-35365

    11/24/2022, 4:55 AM
    Hi everyone - it was a great discussion last week on how to code faster. One of the points was pattern recognition. I’ve been googling to find React Best Practices/Design Patterns, but it may be best to learn the top 10-15 components every React App seems to use and learn from those patterns. Anyone have any repos to look at that would be great to see/research these patterns using hooks & classes?
  • h

    hundreds-answer-84938

    11/24/2022, 11:34 PM
    What are people's thoughts on this program here: https://devdegree.ca/ Essentially, it's basically a fully paid program where you work for 20 hours and study for the rest of the time (you have a lower course load but are working the whole year). Your tuition is fully covered and you are paid a salary as well (It's around 160K-200K+ CAD total for 4 years) However, you have to do all of your internships at Shopify and you aren't going to a prestigious school (Carleton CS and York CS are probably middle of and barely in the top 10 respectively in Canada. Also, I have heard stories of some people doing outside internships but it's not common, from my understanding). However, I have heard people say that this program specifically is second or third only to Waterloo and maybe University of Toronto in Canada. I just wanted to get the perspective of actual experts in the field whether this sort of thing is actually recommended or if traditional university at a potentially more prestigious university would be better (I have heard that prestige doesn't matter but I am not an expert).
  • h

    hundreds-answer-84938

    11/24/2022, 11:35 PM
    The main university (Carleton) is in Ottawa since Shopify is based in Ottawa
  • h

    hundreds-answer-84938

    11/24/2022, 11:37 PM
    @freezing-hairdresser-20543 By the way, I've recently discovered your videos and as a student pursuing CS, I am loving them. I'm trying to soak up and apply as much of the knowledge on your YT channel as best as I can.
  • h

    hundreds-answer-84938

    11/25/2022, 12:01 AM
    https://techcareergrowth.slack.com/archives/C01M20V3MEJ/p1669332888795919 I'm also curious what the implications are for someone who is aiming for SV unicorns and FAANG companies. I imagine fields such quant at Two Sigma or Jane Street or that sort of field is out of the question unless one goes to a school with prestige.
  • b

    bulky-pillow-4357

    11/25/2022, 1:56 AM
    Is it okay to indicate in my Linkedin "Education" section that I attended a computer engineering school? Even if I only attended it for 3 months? (I had to stop my education due to an illness).
  • t

    thousands-cricket-35423

    11/28/2022, 6:12 PM
    Hi All, I want to know your thoughts about how a career path in Identity Services team look like. I am a CS grad student in my final semester. I have an offer to join a tech company’s Enterprise identity services team which is the same team as where I did my internship. I learned a lot about Identity, SSO, AD and worked extensively on Azure and Microsoft graph APIs. But, I am not too sure how my career path would look like years down the line working in this team. I believe learning about cloud services in Enterprise Identity is great but I don’t know if I would get a chance to work on complex problems and large codebases. Also, I currently consider myself a full stack developer / web developer, having worked on both personal and industry projects using PERN/MERN stacks. And me taking this opportunity will require me to shift completely to a different territory from working on applications/features to creating/configuring systems and automations. I want to choose a track which provides me with maximum growth opportunities, allow me to work on complex problems, and help gain experience working on a large codebase where multiple engineers collaborate.
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    bulky-pillow-4357

    11/29/2022, 2:04 PM
    I completed digital courses on Udemy a number of years ago. Is it ok to put them in the "Education" section?
  • r

    rapid-translator-43735

    11/30/2022, 4:56 AM
    Hello there! I recently became a Product Owner for a Business Intelligence product without any formal Product Owner/Product Management experience. As such, I'm looking to chat with others with experience, insights, and/or advice on what to focus on, how to manage internal stakeholders, and what resources to leverage (just obtained my CSPO certification). Also, if anyone knows of great BI product roadmaps out there, I'd love to know--
  • d

    damp-cricket-48578

    12/03/2022, 6:15 PM
    Love love love this! Thanks again, Alex! Hey! I think you'll find this video about "How To Build Work Relationships Faster - Giving Deeper Thanks" to be helpful: https://link.jointaro.com/gL1mkVfGYRJ6rjD79