DHH is saying I should not be able to offer my work to GitLab at lower pay, especially when that's my advantage over others in developed nations?

If he is saying “you should not be able to” then he is wrong. But I agree that we “should not agree with income inequality based on location” I think it’s more of a question of an individuals choice and preference (again, one of the core advantage of remote work.) Would I want to work with a company that pays me based on my location instead of my talent? no. Should such companies be allowed to hire anywhere in the world? Definitely they will, our thought don’t control jack. Would I work with them if I was out of money and had no other choice? Probably yes (given only other choice is to go full time).

DHH is saying I should not be able to offer my work to GitLab at lower pay

He hasn't said. Neither is that his point.

DHH's wording is in morality terms, but the consequence of what he is asking is exactly what I said. Do you think there exist people who are happy and willing to take GitLab's offer of location-based wages? I assume you do. You and I may not be one of them - but that's irrelevant. If we outrage against GitLab's behaviour as being "immoral" or "unfair" - instead of simply saying "not good enough for me", we are pressurising them to take away this offer that was acceptable to the less privileged devs and either replace with an offer that increases choices for OURSELVES or not offer ANYTHING AT ALL. We'd be taking choices away from the less advantaged people so that we ourselves can profit. All in the name of morality. How convenient? If you're able to charge USD salary while paying INR costs, you are one of the most privileged people around. Of course, DHH's claim will appeal to you, because now you can also feel righteous about it. 😄

DHH is talking about the unfair advantage companies have when dictating salaries and how the status quo keeps building that advantage.

Well, we can be those good examples by turning down offers we don't find fit, GitLab's included?

@victorious-energy-56764 Consider the consequences, not the intentions. If GitLab listens to DHH, they will end up making fewer job offers. Who stands to lose when that happens?

If GitLab listens to DHH, they will end up making fewer job offers.

This is an assumption.

@gorgeous-lunch-25580 Absolutely. Just say, "sorry, this isn't good enough for me" and move on. @victorious-energy-56764 it's not. The entire automation boom is happening when labour starts becoming too costly.

Asking for non-discrimination is about pushing Gitlab to do more.

Gitlab doesn't exist in a silo. They're competing with far more powerful orgs - Microsoft / GitHub. As I said, if companies are in a position to exploit labour, creating more companies is the answer. Unintended consequences of our actions taken with good intentions, end up hurting more.

Unintended consequences of our actions taken with good intentions, end up hurting more.

This is strawman.

Consider why the offer was acceptable to someone in lower privilege in the first place. It’s because they have no idea about alternatives. Not enough good examples exist.

@victorious-energy-56764 I’m just tying to understand your point here let’s take an example of upwork Everyone can get to know what other people charge and how much they earn. Still the there are 1000s of cheap proposal posted by people from less privileged countries(Bangladesh, Ukraine, Pakistan) or where the cost of living is less and charging like 5 usd/hr is way more than what they can earn in their countries if they propose higher rates in proposal they will surely not get the job because someone else will always be ready to do it for lesser amount (so, i kinda agree to @acceptable-flag-71699 that making decisions/arguments for others by thinking that we are doing right by them might not be helpful to those very people)

1. Foo applies for a job at Company X. 2. Let's say, Foo currently earns 15 LPA and is looking for a better job. 3. For the position Foo applied, X has other devs at 30 LPA. Foo has no clue. 4. Company X will ask "what is your expectation" 5. Extrapolate from this. There is simply no way A will fall in that bracket unless they know. 6. Company gets "better RoI" by under-paying someone.

Gotcha

if they propose higher rates in proposal they will surely not get the job because someone else will always be ready to do it for lesser amount

It's naive to assume this is just because of cost. There are many factors in play. Perception of value, internal biases, racism, casteism, etc. This isn't a cost-only game unfortunately.

@victorious-energy-56764 Precisely! All kind of biases and prejudices exist. But allowing unequal pay is how we impose a cost on the discriminators! As Friedman says, I'm on your side, but you're not 😄 Say, company X has a bias against hiring Indian devs. If we make location-specific pay unacceptable/banned, then X is not bearing any cost for their prejudice. But if we don't - then GitLab is able to hire those devs with higher RoI - and thus X gets penalized for their prejudice.

@victorious-energy-56764 Mate, I am genuinely curious to know if you have experienced any sort of casteism? I have no problem admitting the fact that I have been a well-sheltered snowflake who hasn't had to work in a corporate setting in India but for the 5 years I have been in the tech industry I haven't heard or seen an instance of casteism. Of the people I have worked with, I don't know anyone else's caste and none of them know mine. How does this even come up, the race is obvious but caste?

It will take more than a Slack thread to explain, unfortunately.

I have been in the tech industry I haven't heard or seen an instance of casteism

You haven't because you're likely on the good side of the privilege.

I certainly didn't ask it to disregard anyone's issues

You haven't because you're likely on the good side of the privilege.

I think the govt classifies me as BC btw, I don't know if that is supposed to be in the good or bad side of the privilege. But I am not here to say that I didn't experience it, so it doesn't exist. I was just wanted to educate myself.

In this case, you = anyone wanting to understand it, not you specifically

Do you have any ideas for countermeasures we can take against stuff like that?