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# helpdesks
steep-balloon-41261
12/06/2023, 6:02 PMThis message was deleted.
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polite-kilobyte-67570
12/06/2023, 6:08 PMa
adventurous-twilight-28575
12/06/2023, 6:16 PMThanks, I know this reference. Say, I will be using the TURN server you are providing. Since it is "inbuilt" it is accessible most likely under the same public IP the livekit server has. Where is the difference? I suppose, just the port. So the TURN server is "just" for providing the pin hole, which is allowed to access by some closed corporate firewalls: Some public IP at 443.
Media would flow to those clients then via a TCP endpoint, which is connected to the TURN 443 endpoint.
Am I correct with this?
adventurous-twilight-28575
12/06/2023, 6:18 PMOn the other hand I have never heard of any connectivity problems with MediaSoup, though. The second use case for TURN is symmetric NAT. All LTE/5G providers I know have symmetric NAT. This is impossible to overcome with STUN, since the port changes twice. Here TURN comes to help. But again - MS is not using TURN and it always worked, even via LTE....
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dry-elephant-14928
12/07/2023, 8:32 AMI'm guessing you have not tested corporate networks
dry-elephant-14928
12/07/2023, 8:32 AMthat's where the problem typically lies. network policies that restrict non-TLS traffic.
dry-elephant-14928
12/07/2023, 8:33 AMyou definitely don't need TURN if none of your users have those challenging network environments, hence it's an optional feature within LiveKit.
more docs on connectivity here
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adventurous-twilight-28575
12/07/2023, 8:39 AMI'm guessing you have not tested corporate networksRight, in absence of having access to such 😀 But I explicitly asked for TURN in the MediaSoup discourse group and they told me: Not required. I of course also see the problem of having clients behind symmetric NAT or big, fat firwalls restricting except 443 TCP. Just wondering, why this seems to be not an issue with MS.
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dry-elephant-14928
12/07/2023, 8:45 AMI'm not sure how you'd arrive at that conclusion. We know many folks coming from MediaSoup world that had deployed coTurn or Twilio TURN. Seems like those folks have reached a different conclusion.
dry-elephant-14928
12/07/2023, 8:50 AMAll I'm saying is that it would be extremely unlikely that somehow the software is able to somehow get around network restrictions that firewalls are imposing. But if there are data/tests to suggest it's the case, then I would love to learn the magic they are using to make that work. 🙂
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adventurous-twilight-28575
12/07/2023, 9:09 AMI’m completely with you. I for now did not meet such a closed corporate network. But I know for sure, that in the symmetric NAT scenario no TURN is required with MS. IMHO the entire TURN thing is relevant only at the subscriber side. I’m currently having a fresh AWS installation of LK w/o TURN. Will test that with may iPhone’s LTE access and report
adventurous-twilight-28575
12/07/2023, 9:13 AMI'm not sure how you'd arrive at that conclusion. We know many folks coming from MediaSoup world that had deployed coTurn or Twilio TURN. Seems like those folks have reached a different conclusion.
In fact up to now never spent a thought on TURN after I was told not required. I know TURN was a must have with Kurento especially for LTE access. Both - Kurento and LK - use trickle ICE. MS doesn’t at all. I don’t have a clue how this makes a difference but this difference is there at least
adventurous-twilight-28575
12/07/2023, 10:29 AMHere is some more information regarding MS and TURN. At least there is a mentioning of TURN for TLS 443, so you have a point.
https://mediasoup.discourse.group/t/stun-turn-server/1775/10
adventurous-twilight-28575
12/07/2023, 10:45 AMOK, was connecting to LK using a tethered iPhone 5G connection. No issues.
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