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Hey all, is there a training or boot camp for some...
# jobs
t
Hey all, is there a training or boot camp for something that I can take to set myself up for a stable job? Let’s say 5 years ago, software development was that. What is the ‘thing’ now? I’m a creative, video producer, writer, director, actor but I need to set myself up and family with stable, and consistent income and my business is failing. Is Salesforce still a thing? What’s the latest and greatest to get certified or training in and can come out to get a job and set myself up for success? TIA
s
Wow, that's rough. 😢. The fastest thing is going to be what you already know how to do. Maybe if you pinpoint why your businesses is failing you could target that? Are you not getting enough leads? Not closing? Operations issues?
t
Nah I’m done running my own business. I want to be an employee. For sure I hate doing most biz dev and admin. Not a big fan of spending most of my time figuring out ICPs, who to message, how to follow up, in person or remote, dealing with low budget clients or ghosting leads. Gave this business a good run the last 2-5 years. Putting it off to the side. Now on a separate note if I had a partner, someone who was better equipped for the business side of things and/or to keep the business (/me) accountable) that would have been interesting. But we are $10k in the red, not making enough money to pay the bills, etc all the fun stuff :)
c
Following for similar reasons. As for my guidance, please take this with a grain of salt as I’m still bouncing from gig to gig while I look for something long-term. The frum finance tech guide may be helpful. I asked ChatGPT for suggestions on what I could do with my skills and experience for a career change. I found that helpful. Added a new field which I hadn’t considered. Analysis is a good field. If you know / can learn Excel, SQL, and/or Python, that could put you in a decent place. Financial services can have a low barrier of entry. Branch banking comes to mind. Then if desired you can work your way to wealth management etc. Depending on where you go there is still biz dev that route. If any of these strike you I’m happy to elaborate. Hatzlacha rabba!
s
Keep in mind the way the AI has caused a shift in hiring in some fields, especially for junior roles
c
I don’t know how much of that is AI as opposed to companies outsourcing and offshoring junior roles (ask me how I know) and demanding seniors take junior pay 🙃
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In other words hiring has been a nightmare since shareholder value and quarterly earnings became the dominant model, AI is just the natural evolution imo
r
IMHO tech might no longer be the hot thing it was, I recommend (in jest) that people should consider becoming plumbers and electricians 🙂
t
@rich-insurance-32675 that’s what I’m thinking that tech is NOT the place anymore. I have a friend who can attest to that but I’m wondering if there’s something else. Could be an apprenticeship or trade like you’re saying
c
The boot camp bubble is over for sure. I think getting into tech is now about skills/portfolio/knowing the right people. I wouldn’t call business analysis “tech” though as the opportunities seem better.
s
enterprise sales?
t
It’s not like I have a strong desire to ‘get into tech’. I’m just realizing I need a more stable and consistent way to provide for the family while I’m continuing doing my creative work on the side. In terms of sales, I could consider it but the three people I spoke to about sales really rubbed me the wrong way: ‘If you don’t work 7A - 6P, you won’t be successful’ ‘If you don’t lie through your teeth, this won’t work’ ‘I’ll start you at $25-35k base salary.’
c
Maybe digital marketing? Pros: low barrier to entry (google/fb ads certificates), possible creative outlet, decent pay Cons: can feel slimy, agency life has a large workload (and that’s where most people start), I’ve been laid off twice
t
I don’t think so. I don’t need my work to be a creative outlet, I need it to be stable. Your cons are pretty big there 😂
c
Fair enough. For some people it’s appealing. For others it’s not worth it. That’s why I’m trying for a career change
t
@mysterious-tomato-10057 you know how ChooseFI pushed Salesforce for a while? Is there nothing like that now?
t
If I was younger, I would consider going back for a medical degree of some sort. NP/PA
They can’t offshore that
Although its showing signs of its own H1-B issues
m
@thousands-sunset-8939 i think the salesforce of today is AI
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t
If I had to invest a significant amount of time into something, it would NOT be tech
m
Just for context, @tall-angle-89997 has a known distain for where the field is going so don't let that turn you away 😛
t
Sorry to be so negative. I just think it’s unstable, difficult to age in, and as someone said all the junior roles are offshored.
I don’t necessarily know how to break into it these days, but to stay in it sales and people management skills are critical.
On the implementation* side, they want people onshore to architect then lead offshore teams.
m
i see offshore going away and being replaced with AI, so really, its onshore people to architect and have AI implement
t
^ But I don’t see AI being quite there yet
m
i haven't written code since april, idk, i just architect and tell claude what to do
t
I’m not a dev, I do cloud and IAC, but even Claude produces slop. But I need to invest more time on it.
It’s hard to tell what’s a good field to go into anymore
Medicine needs a license and requires hands on work that will be harder for AI to target
You could also try being born rich 😞
t
So @mysterious-tomato-10057 you would recommend getting really good at prompt engineering and AI adjacent roles? @tall-angle-89997 not looking for go back to school. I’m 35 with 3 kids
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t
Prompt engineering, chaining AI outputs/inputs
Basically being able to figure out a role, then figure out how to use different AIs to orchestrate the tasks of that role
m
@thousands-sunset-8939 prompt engineering is mostly out the door at this point. Field is changing FAST.
t
Right, I use AI pretty frequently lol. So what the heck IS coming in the door? How do we set up a frum family in my circumstance for financial and mental success??
m
First we need to figure out how much money you need, then we can pick career paths
doesn't make sense to pick it without that data
depends heavily on your personality, i think if i was starting with nothing and no skills, i would try to create a no-employee-ai-powered-startup
s
Derech Mitzvosecha style
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@thousands-sunset-8939 wants a steady salaried job though, not the accountability heavy work of starting a new business
t
I think that does require skills though
m
@straight-nightfall-20143 right so it depends on how much they are looking for. If my goal was just supporting an upper lower class family, i would move to a community with tuition vouchers, get jobs that pay 100k, put 50k a year into pre tax deducitble investments, live off 40k, and claim all the government benefits.
100k total household income that is
t
So we have some hefty tuition scholarships in Philly, with our current financial status we are only paying $960 for two kids per month right now. The 3rd is in pre school with no breaks. We’ve been in the red for so long it’s hard to know where we actually are but if we brought in 100k I’m sure we would make do. At this point, I’m going to part time teach at cheder ($1800 a month) and my wife will full time teach at another school ($4000) a month so with help from her parents we should be able to get back to stable footing for a bit, cutting out nearly EVERYTHING that was extra. So I feel like we are back to what are those jobs to get? I want us to get to upper middle class. We want to buy a house, and as soon as we start making more money, I’m sure tuition will go up to normal cost.
t
“put 50k a year into pre tax deductible investments, live off 40k, and claim all the government benefits.” - I would make sure the place you move to does not count pre tax investments as assets for benefits.
m
correct, besides for food stamps you are ususally good, they focus on your AGI
c
@mysterious-tomato-10057 any thoughts on data/business analysis? On the one hand seems like something AI is capable of handling but on the other hand it could be something that just gets augmented by AI.
m
i don't think that job will exist long term but i DO think its a career that you'll be able to ride the AI wave into whatever the next manifestation is of that career
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t
@tall-angle-89997 and @mysterious-tomato-10057 stupid question but what do you mean when you say pre tax deductible? You mean our combined Roth IRAs and my self employed 401k?
m
Combined Traditional IRA/401k/403bs
t
ah I see. @mysterious-tomato-10057 if I wanted to stop my hair from being on fire, what’s our next step?
m
i use those to help poor-middle class families become very wealthy-lower class families
@thousands-sunset-8939 Depends on what your minimum livable salary is
t
I don’t really have advice, I just want to express empathy for your worry and concern. This is something that worries me a lot too. I hope you find your path.
Also siphon as much money into FSA/HSA as possible
Dependent care FSA. 529 can be used for k-12 tuition and gets tax breaks in some states.
t
@mysterious-tomato-10057 at this point with our current situation, is around $75k. That includes all of our current aid and help
t
This sounds absolutely awful, but sometimes it’s good not to be legally married for benefits or tax purposes.
m
@thousands-sunset-8939 even both of you taking jobs you really don't want to take at as low as $20/hour would be more than 75k, this seems like a fairly easy hole to climb out of
t
@mysterious-tomato-10057 dude I’ve been applying like crazy. Giant over here was paying $17/hour and I was like come on. At least the cheder part time for me is $35/hour. It seems like there are two layers though: 1) get out of the hole with a band aid for now 2) how to set up better success financially in the future for Short term it seems like we will squeeze and save while we get out of this but long term is where I’m coming up short. @tall-angle-89997 you’re saying this is bad?
t
The marriage comment I made? It just feels like an awful choice to make.
I can give you some shopping, credit card and banking cash back bonus tips, but that doesn’t help the main issue.
m
@thousands-sunset-8939 Hmm, what are the best industries where you live? for example, in baltimore its government work, its the healthiest stable gig. In kingston its kashrus or chinuch, what's it by you?
t
@mysterious-tomato-10057 that’s an interesting question. I don’t know. Would I just think about what others are doing?
@mysterious-tomato-10057 I’m surprised you know the answer to that question. I just asked our community WhatsApp group. How did you figure that out? See what most people are working in?
m
yeah look at what is propping up the economy, gotta speak to smart people who live in the area i guess. For example, this is why people don't move to kingston, because there is no economy you only have mosdos and people running their own online businesses, so if you move there, there is no fallback plan.
its usually easy to figure out why people want to live in a city and figure out what house of cards it sits on. like rochester was kodak, so when kodak went under, the city became a shell of what it was
right now rochester is propped up by the univeristy for rochester solely. without the one university a city if 1 million people would disappear
University of Rochester is the 5th largest employer in all of new york state now
so it basically props up that economy
t
Silly question, but how do you figure this out about a place?
m
no idea, i know this just from living in Roc and Baltimore and being a curious person
the state of maryland sits on top of government work in general, not just baltimore
c
m
looks like insurance and univerisities
t
I think universities are** propped up by migrants right now, no?
c
Insurance is a decent industry with a low barrier of entry. Being an agent/broker does come with biz dev but backend work like underwriting doesn’t
m
i am okay with insurance as long as it isn't sales
i would stay away from sales jobs like the plague
t
Why?
It’s harder to offshore and replace with AI. If you have the personality for it.
c
Lot of slime there. Also depending on where you work the commissions aren’t great And avoid insurance companies that call themselves financial advisors
m
i wouldn't want to tie my value to the spending of money of others not correlated with the value they receive from the product. Incentivizes bad practices. very slimey.
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t
@mysterious-tomato-10057 someone also just said programming but he’s not exactly tapped into the local economy.
m
help frum finance raise money and take one of the open positions we have 🙂
t
Local shlaich said healthcare as well
m
@thousands-sunset-8939 no way is philly a programming hub
t
I agree with that, I don’t have the personality or people tolerance for sales. Tech sales is slimey, but not as slimey as insurance sales.
m
healthcare and universities are usually intertwined
t
@mysterious-tomato-10057 you have an open position?? Down
m
@thousands-sunset-8939 we have multiple open positions, just no money to pay the roles 🙂
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so until we have that, we need people that are willing to figure out the profit side of their position
like fundraising etc
t
This one is more applicable to women, but you can find jobs caring for elderly and kids off the books
c
Honestly if I were you I’d focus on govt jobs. Reasonable pay, usually solid benefits
t
@mysterious-tomato-10057 position looks like there’s a salary lol? It’s contingent on fundraising
m
Correct
t
Maybe let’s talk about this. Would love to work on something meaningful and we explored something like this (me being more invoked here) in the earlier days of frum finance.
m
happy to talk it out 🙂
t
Sent a WA message to that number too
s
@tall-angle-89997, regarding NP/PA, I was also considering it... but the problem is that I've heard it's not transferable to Israel and I assume other places as well. You're basically considered a nurse, as mid-level medical degrees are not recognized there. But definitely do your research!
IYH when Moshiach comes very soon, I would like to be able to transfer that to Eretz Yisroel. (Unless the Bais Hamikdash's re-opening will create more jobs lol)
t
@strong-cat-39227 Do you have immediate plans to move to Israel? I’d like to think that when Moshiach comes I wouldn’t have to worry about if my credentials and skills are transferable to Israel :)
NP is probably better because they can practice independently. (Although PAs have a better education and I don’t believe mid levels should ever practice independently anyway)
The reason why I say it’s good is because you can’t offshore it. And when you’re older or depending on other life circumstances, it’s the kind of career where you can choose to only work a few days a week for health insurance.
Unlike IT, the field doesn’t completely change and require you to relearn everything every few years.
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t
Someone mentioned an Administrator in training to become a Nursing Home Administrator. Starting salary in the training is 40k-60k full time, and then the potential if you get an NHA job is between $85-130k.
t
That sounds good too
I imagine that is more competitive and those roles get filled by nepotism though…
t
Well if the AIT can start sooner instead of teaching at the cheder it still might make more sense. Being Chabad, nepotism is just part of the lifestyle so I’m not surprised there 😂
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t
If you have the connections to get that kind of role it seems like an awesome thing to aim for. I just figure those roles are filled by friends and family of the people who own the nursing homes.
Regardless of what training or credentials they have…
t
I can’t worry about that right now lol. That’s gonna be yetzar hara because right in front of me is a guy who is working as an AIT and got me in to shadow him after YT. Gotta follow it and see what happens and keep seeing what options come up ya know?
t
I’m sorry for being a pessimist - I’m working on it 🙂 That’s awesome that you have an opportunity and I truly hope it works out.
t
😜 thanks 🤩
t
What does AIT stand for in this context?
I will say it sounds like a great career to age in
m
Ain't IT
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t
It could be an opportunity to sort of get into IT without being dedicated to it, no? You may have influence over whatever software and hardware runs the place.
t
Administrator in training
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