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Looking for some answers for some questions about ...
# housing
w
Looking for some answers for some questions about doing a home renovation. Some questions: Is doing a single story addition significantly cheaper than a two story addition? Is it a bad idea to make a floor plan myself? Who do I use to make a floorplan and how much of what I want it to look like do I need to have worked out? If I need a contractor and an architect and who knows what else, who would be the one to give me an estimate for the total cost of the project, and at what point do I get that?
m
If you don't want the headache of figuring out all the details yourself, I'd recommend using a "design build firm" which basically does all this work for you, architects, engineers, designers, etc.
s
This is going to cost you a lot of time and money and emotions. It's worth getting the layout right. If you're particularly good at floorplans then maybe you can do it on your own, but imo this is one of the worst part of the projects to skimp on
Architect can give you an estimate for their work, contractor for their work, etc. and you'll want multiple prices from multiple vendors. Design build firm probably shortcuts the number of phone calls and headaches, make sure to price around there too
Architects and contractors who've worked with the other one many times can maybe give you rough estimates for the other one to help you ballpark (10k vs 100k vs 1m), but you'll want to call each one anyway
Single vs two story - I'll go with "it depends" - are you digging down to make foundation for the one story addition anyway? Are you adding plumbing? HVAC? What's the roof situation?
Renovations are pretty awful to live through, you're going to want to do this only once and never have to do it again. Imo if you can afford it and you think it's useful for you (ie not just building useless rooms) , go for the bigger job
r
We just finished our addition, if you to chat over the phone let me know
w
@steep-dog-55906 thank you! Some follow up questions:
this is one of the worst part of the projects to skimp on
If I'm not skimping, what are my options of who helps me with this? I have both renovating existing space and planning an addition
are you digging down to make foundation
I am assuming that for a one story I don't need a foundation - is that not necessarily a safe assumption? (And if not, who would be the one to know if I need a foundation - engineer, contractor, architect?)
Are you adding plumbing? HVAC? What's the roof situation?
I'm assuming all of these will stay constant for either option - no more or less plumbing depending on if we were doing a second story.
Architect can give you an estimate for their work, contractor for their work, etc.
Who is etc.? I.e. what other estimates do I need to bake in to trying to get a project total?
@mysterious-tomato-10057 Is there a good way to know what the added cost of using a design build firm would be? I have a budget for this project and need to get some basic concept of what range things will be and I guess that creates one more variable.
@rich-insurance-32675 yeah I'll call you on my way to work tomorrow. Thanks!
s
An interior designer (not decorator) or architect can help with floor plans. Depending on where you live, you may need an architect anyway in order to file plans. One story may also need foundation, it really really depends on so many things. I'd say ask a contractor. Plumbing may change - ie if you're building a plain room on the first floor, but would want to add a bathroom on the second floor if you build a second floor. Project total and who you need to talk to depends on what you're doing. Is it just empty box rooms? Are there kitchens and bathrooms involved? Are you going to add on to your existing HVAC system or do temp control independently in the extension? Will you be buying light fixtures or just installing spots? Do you need to file any plans with the city?
Also for total cost, take whatever estimates you get and inflate them. Whether you double, triple, add 30% - it WILL be more expensive, just hard to say by how much
m
Id also recommend getting a space planner (I can give you a reference in Baltimore) since they specialize in space optimization as opposed to a designer or a decorator.
https://frumfinance.slack.com/archives/C04H2JCFFAQ/p1738904203961829?thread_ts=1738887565.476059&cid=C04H2JCFFAQ Idk but I'd assume at least 10% more. In general my thoughts have been for investment properties I'd do it myself but for my own home I'd pay the premium to have one firm I can hold accountable instead of having N people pointing fingers at each other.
s
Oh also - do you need to change the layout of the existing house in order to have the extension make sense layout wise? This is especially worth considering for a second floor extension - is the new room only accessible through an existing bedroom?
I know this is a TON to think about and can be super overwhelming. BH we moved back into our house about a year ago after a 7 month job (which I know is short in the grand scheme) with lots of planning and headaches, and bH I can say it was worth it
w
@rich-insurance-32675 as you may have noticed I forgot to call you, but I drove in at 7am this morning so probably was for the best 🙂 I'll call you at some point.
yeah thankfully our layout doesn't require any changes to existing layout (other than that we plan to remodel the entire basement and change the layout whether we do 2, 1, or 0 floor extensions)
I guess one thing I am also trying to figure out is - is this just a time vs money trade-off and if I spend enough of my own time I can do it as well as the build firm would, or are there services that they provide that I just won't be able to match on my own?
s
Remember to factor moving, storage, rent into total cost if you need it
No - this is talent, both born and acquired. People who have done this MANY times before have gotten good at this. Specifically when it comes to space planning - I once used an interior designer who was able to add a linen closet simply by changing where in two bedrooms the closets were located, making them back to back and then removing some space from them and adding access in the hallway. I would never have thought of this
But I will say if you get someone to do things for you hourly, you can save money by doing pre-work. If you know what you want to build (x bedrooms and a linen closet, a playroom, etc) then their work takes faster than trying to sit down and tease out information
Similarly, you can coordinate the different contractors, but a build firm or general contractor will know much better in what order things need to be done, how far advance notice to need to schedule subcontractors in order for them to come by a certain date, know how to keep an eye on the workers in order to know what wasn't done well and what needs to be redone, etc
If you or someone you know can do these things, you can save money. Just figure out what you have the skills to do vs what you need to hire out
Also where you're willing to risk it
Eg somehow bH I'm good at kitchen layout planning. I spent a ton of time on it, but didn't have to hire for that one.
Similarly, I'm ok enough (and have friends and relatives who are good) at picking paint colors and finishes, and I don't really really care if I get that wrong. So didn't hire for that, and spent a lot of time looking at tiles personally
thankyou 1
w
Ok and after all of the above, I'm still confused on "where is the entry point" - do I first reach out to a build design firm and get a quote from them, do I start with a contractor, do I start with an interior designer / space planner?
I feel like there are lots of circular dependencies here.
s
I started with a contractor. Draw up a very rough plan of what you want, the dimensions, the number and types of rooms, and basic requirements (HVAC, plumbing, windows). Ask 2-3 contractors about how much it would cost to build it to get you a rough number
👍 1
You'll need to figure out separately whether you need an architect. If you do, ask 2-3 for an estimate using the same rough info from step 1
This is going to get you a good rough project estimate, and enough information about who else you might need to speak to
m
This thread has severely reinforced my decision to stick with design build firms 😂
Basically anything over 100k I think I would use a design build firm
w
I have NO IDEA if what I want to do is going to cost more than 100k.
s
With all due respect, knowing nothing about you or your project, it probably will :(
m
So ask a design build firm to swing by and give you an estimate.
I can give you the number of a frum guy
w
Know any that give free estimates?
m
Yup
s
Every contractor I spoke to gave a free estimate. Only architects asked me to pay for their time
w
Is he heimish? I do not want a heimish guy. I mean I don't mind if he eats potato kugel with his hands but he better have a website and a truck with his company's name on it.
m
I have the same experience. Everyone does free estimates besides the real estate lawyers and the architects.
He is not heimish.
w
ok plz send contact info!
m
Given the complexity of what is involved for a design build firm, I don't think you could do it heimish
w
frum people figure out how to do everything heimish
m
If you want to wait, I'm starting my first job with him. It's a 10k renovation. If you want to wait to use him for me to give feedback.
w
Well... my wife already wants this project to be started sometime around 3 months ago so... I would want to wait but other forces are opposed to it 🙂
but, you're using a design build firm for a 10k job??
m
I don't think he advertises as a design build firm but he told me he has it all in house to function as one. Either way he will give you a good free estimate.
He is somewhere in the middle. Doesn't advertise as a design build firm, so yeah haha. Probably not accurate to call him one but he has the architects, etc, all on staff he said.
w
ok lema'aseh he could give me an estimate that covers everything and handle everything so amounts to the same I guess.
m
Right.
s
@mysterious-tomato-10057 what can you do for 10k these days, given the cost of raw materials?
m
Texted you his contact. Please mention I sent you.
He gave me a free estimate for the two 100k+ renovations I want to do on my house in the future. I was very happy with the process.
https://frumfinance.slack.com/archives/C04H2JCFFAQ/p1738940523393749?thread_ts=1738887565.476059&cid=C04H2JCFFAQ I'm redoing the ceilings of the first floor of my house to get rid of the popcorn ceiling and while I'm already there I'm adding recess lighting. Lol
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Grr
s
Ok but have you also considered putting in soundproof insulation while you're in there?
m
I haven't tell me more.
s
In theory it helps insulate sound between the floors. Tbh I find that the sound still travels very well up our staircase so idk if it's worth the expense. But maybe it would have been worse if we didn't do it?
w
Late to this conversation but if still relevant I advise against using Rockwool , it doesn't add much more of a sound barrier than fiberglass. Look into resilient channels, Sonopan, and or green glue. If you can switch to 5/8 sheetrock even better especially 2 layers
m
@white-electrician-18051 thank you!
w
@mysterious-tomato-10057 I've had some stalling in my project so haven't moved along - in the meantime, did your project get underway and have any feedback on the contractor?
m
iyh starting next week, had to wait for the weather to warm up bc i need to turn off the heat for a week to do the work
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