Frum.Finance

In a situation where the husband makes all the money and the wife is a stay at home mom, what can they do to get themselves qualified for wic? I have seen a lot of people doing this but was never able to get a straight answer

You're generally considered a single household. If you make under the income limits you get, if not, not.
Are you asking from an income limit perspective or work requirements (which I don't think WIC has)?

In most cases you are considered a single household even if you are not legally married because the husband is supporting the wife

That’s what I’m wondering, cause I know of someone who is the CTO of a lakewood software company and has to be making solid cash (probably &gt; 250k) yet he’s on wic. There has to be hack here

Sometimes the timing works out where you can qualify for some benefit but will continue qualification due to other continuing requirements. Like 

I had my son when I had Medicaid and then got a new job that would have disqualified me. But I still got Medicaid for another 1.5 years because they never take children off Medicaid until they hit the renewal post 1-year old.

Then there are the people doing sketchy or illegal stuff so not all is as it appears

In my limited personal experience doing financial consulting, it's usually a lot of illegal sketchiness...

Or they could just be reinvesting money into the business to lower their income which is fine.

This too. Business owners/partners have their income calculated differently

Hi friends I am a professional civil servant working in this exact area and everything which has been said here is correct to the best of my knowledge. When I come is reported by paystub, we look at gross income (minus our allowable deductions), when income is reported by tax return, we look at AGI. 

I’m not that business savvy but I presume businesses file their taxes separately form the owner’s personal taxes (i.e. their income).

Sanity check - I am planning to funnel all of my tuition through a 529, where it will only remain for the time it takes for it to clear. Reference that this works: Q2 at the bottom here - <https://agudathisrael-md.org/529-2/>. I don't plan to have the entirety of my tuition available in cash to do that, so my plan was that each month I would deposit an equivalent to that month's tuition (which I need to have available anyways), then immediately withdraw it, and then pay tuition with it. Can anyone tell me if there's anything that I am missing that I would need to do / account for?

might be a better fit for <#C04FDU01UGY|taxes> unless you're going for that "match" thing. In that case
1. seems like we're past the deadline
2. It says something about a limit of 2 contributions a year
Other than that, this sounds like a good plan to me

Yeah I've maxed out the match. Going for the tax break now. I guess that's taxes.

In a given year. I am no longer eligible for the match, so I'm going to get the tax break from now on.

<@U04EQED6QKU> The deadline is likely referring to 2023 not 2022. 

And the two contributions thing is simply saying that they don’t want 27 different people getting the match for one person but he can definitely systematically fund the account 

Not sure i'm following the logic. Contributions to 529 are not deductible for federal taxes, only the gains aren't taxed. Some states will let you deduct state income tax, but there are caveats. For example in New York, only the first 10k are deductible. And even then only for post high school, if you use the funds for grade school or high school, they will void the deduction retroactively.

Given the above, what would be the point of funding a 529 with your entire tuition bill for a minute period of time?

They allow up to 10k per beneficiary for k-12,  2.5k deductible per beneficiary

It seems you can collect the deduction in future years, so I can see that it could make sense for many years to come of 2.5k deductions

If only NY would take a page from this :cry:

California will make you pay an early withdrawal penalty if use it for k-12

I do exactly that to pay for my wifes college. I put in 10k and then pull it out right after, by me the main benefit is the NY tax deduction so obviously depends where you live.

Anyone know if NJ has a similar tax deduction for 529 accounts for kids tuition? 

&gt; 1. The New Jersey College Affordability Act allows for New Jersey taxpayers, with gross income of $200,000 or less, to qualify for a state income tax deduction for contributions into an NJBEST plan of up to $10,000 per taxpayer, per year, beginning with contributions made in tax year 2022.
&gt; 2. The New Jersey College Affordability Act allows taxpayers with household adjusted gross income between $0 and $75,000 may be eligible for a one-time grant of up to $750 matched dollar-for-dollar of the initial deposit into an NJBEST account for accounts open on or after June 29, 2021. Visit <https://www.hesaa.org/Pages/NJBESTMatchingProgram.aspx|HESAA's site> for terms and conditions and how to apply. This program is subject to available funding.
&gt; 

^<https://www.njbest.com/why-njbest/njbest-benefits>

I'm disappointed that Aguda of NJ couldn't get those income limits to adjust for family size

<@U04EMDCKERK> from what I understand, I can get 2.5k per parent per child, i.e. 5k per child, so for (currently) 4 tuitions, that's 20k of tax deduction/yr.

<@U04EQED6QKU> thanks for the links, I just want to confirm I can basically tax shelter 10k of tuition. By putting it into the 529 and then paying my kids school with the money. 

<@U04GAUFUQEM> you can get much more than that. In MD, the total tuition up to 10k can be deducted. But only 2.5k per child for a given year’s contributions, the rest deferred to later years.

<@U04H553HWT0> yes. Unfortunately it looks like that 10K is per household. It does not get doubled on a joint return.

<@U04EMDCKERK>
&gt;  Since federal expansion of the meaning of Qualified Education Expenses effective January 2018, Account Holders have been permitted to take federally-qualified distributions from their 529 accounts for up to $10,000 per Beneficiary, per year for tuition at an elementary or secondary public, private, or religious school.*
<https://maryland529.com/Investment-Plan/K-12-Private-School> Where are you seeing this 2.5k per child per year?

_hey reader! a good number of messages in this thread display (edited) on them and no longer say what I remember them saying. That might make the back and forth below hard to follow and might make some of my questions seem strange, but by the time of this edit (2023-02-01 6:05 ct) I think we all got on the same page as to how a maryland 529 works :)_

<https://maryland529.com/529-Basics/Why-Maryland-529/Tax-Advantages>
&gt;  Maryland 529 plans are the only plans to offer Maryland taxpayers an annual Maryland State income deduction on contributions of up to $2,500 per Account, or per Beneficiary, depending on what plan you choose.

<@U04EQED6QKU> Both are true. The 10k is the amount you are permitted to expense out of the 529.  The 2.5k is the amount you can deduct from state income for contributions

OK so you can always take out 4 times as much as you put in. I don't see the need for any sort of rollover strategy. The deductions happen when you put the money in.

Only 2.5k of deductions for the year you put them in, and another 2.5k for subsequent years, up to the total of your contribution

You can contribute 20k in a given year and still deduct the full 20k over a period of 8 years

I really don't get what problem you're trying to solve. family of 4 with 2 parents can contribute 20k and deduct it all that year

Are we talking about family of one child one parent?

&gt; Family of 4, means 4 kids?
was going off of <@U04GAUFUQEM> s example

And lastly, you are assuming the tuition bill for 4 is 5k each, I started with an 8k assumption for each

My understanding is its 2.5k per parent even on joint returns.

So you're offering a solution for withdrawing more than can be contributed??

No, for deducting the full tuition even beyond the 2.5k per year. Where do you see that the 2.5k is per parent?

I've not seen any max contribution for any year. Only max deduction and max expenditures

on aguda of md's materials <https://agudathisrael-md.org/529-2/> says a couple can deduct 5k per child

OK so you're trying to solve the max deduction problem by over-contributing and taking a deduction in some later year for an older contribution?

ok so lets use a simple example 2 parents 1 child. tuition is 8k a year. Every year we contribute 8k and withdraw 8k and only deduct 5k. Lets pretend this child is in school 10 years leading to 30 k of non-deducted contributions. You're claiming I can deduct that 30 k over the next 6 years after the child graduated?

yes, you can - there is a 10 year carryforward for deducting excess contributions

And it appears you are correct that joint filers can double the deduction, but they would have to open separate accounts.  Each account counts the 2.5k separately

What makes you think they would have to open up separate accounts?

What makes you think they wouldn't :smile:

I mean anecdotally I have seen myriads of Pennsylvania state tax returns that maxed out the joint limit using only one account 

This is for Maryland. The process is arbitrary so you can't really compare one state to another

I've maxed out the limit with only one account in Missouri

I would be shocked if the actual Maryland tax code makes that distinction 

But then again I have also never heard of being able to carry forward unused deductions so perhaps Maryland does things very differently than other states 

It appears I read it incorrectly.  The paperwork talks about joint filers maintaining separate accounts, but it doesn’t actually say that they _must_ maintain separate accounts

Per other portions it appears even family and friends are eligible for the deduction when paying into other people’s accounts, so likely that applies to married couples as well

The official site doesn’t clarify the point, but all the non-authoritative sites say that this is so, so it probably is :shrug:

Separate accounts is only for getting the state matching contribution. For taxes, one account is ok.

But, to clarify the above - if I pay the full tuition funneled through a 529, or at least the first 10k per child, then I can build up a backlog of deductions to take after I am no longer paying tuition. How complicated is it do have this cheshbon and keep it documented?

I like your idea :slightly_smiling_face: here

You can only carry forward for 10 years though

That being said, I'm pretty sure it's $5k (deductible on a joint return) per year per beneficiary + the ten year carry forward (for an additional $5k) for each beneficiary.

However, it's a 10 year limit per yearly contribution so you could stagger it and have it cover most if not all years even up to the $10k of tuition (need to Excel this out)

Plus, you can absorb this contribution long after your kids leave school and once they hit college, there are many more investment account options

Screenshot (38).png

Just made a basic contribution and amortization schedule if you contribute exactly the maximum withdrawal amount of $10k and withdraw it the same year for tuition

I'm not really sure if you are _obligated_ to take the deduction the next immediate your or if you could wait for the 10th year to take the first year carry-forward deduction but I don't see why not

Im new to the idea of a 529. Can someone break it down for dummies and share any resources relevant to PA?

&gt; Pennsylvania state income tax deduction – Pennsylvania taxpayers can deduct up to $17,000 in contributions per beneficiary per year ($34,000 if married filing jointly, assuming each spouse had income of at least $17,000) from their Pennsylvania taxable income for the purposes of determining their state income taxes.

<https://www.pa529.com/faqs/|https://www.pa529.com/faqs/>

And thanks to recent law changes, the money can be withdrawn penalty free for k-12 education

Is this a new thing that states allow withdrawal for k-12?
From what I see Ohio allows it as well

its a trump era change for federal tax purposes. But not all states got on board for state taxes ie California. State taxes is what's usually more relevant since contribution to 529s are NOT fed tax deductible but often state tax deductible

Is the deduction only if you itemize, or is it on top of the standard deduction?

can't speak for every state but in MO its on top of

<@U04GVJZ4XEY> I am currently talking to my new tax professional about doing this, but taking a look at the NJ 1040 2022 tax forms, the $10k per tax payer for NJBest is recorded on line 37a whereas the Standard deduction goes on line 30. So seems on top of the standard deduction. 

MEAP Flyer[10100].pdf

Anyone in Baltimore city can see if they qualify for subsidies on their energy&amp;water bills

<https://www.jcsmd.org/machform/view.php?id=578743>

IMG_6979.png

<https://www.benefits.gov/benefit/1559|https://www.benefits.gov/benefit/1559>

General income eligibility guidelines I found on the web.

Anyone know more about gov rebates in nyc on getting rid of window AC units and installing split units?

I'm not sure which one your referring to but there was a program a while back from con ed that paid for split units if you got rid of your boiler and used the split units for both heat and ac.

Does anyone know of any rebates or programs in NJ for homeowners/first time homebuyers to help with house improvements and/or utility costs? I know that PSEG has an income restriction program for some energy savings products. This would be for middle range income family but living in what’s probably a low income area. 

Do you mean improvements related to energy efficiency? E.g. insulation?
Or any home improvements?
I don't know of any, but I think the clarification would be helpful for others. Hard to believe the latter would exist without an income restriction... But hey, who knows :)

We had to replace our HVAC and got rebates from PSEG for energy efficiency. They also have a program where you can pay off the expense over a few years with zero interest. These were not income based

Not specific to energy efficiency - <https://rehabconj.com/>
There's income eligibility limits though. They give money towards home improvements and if you live in the house for 5 (I think) years you don't have to pay it back.

They have brochures on the website with the eligibility info

<@U04FE4SPVU0> Any types of improvements. 
Thanks for all the responses. 

We had to replace our washing machine and there is an NJNG rebate of $100 for washing machine and $300 for a dryer. Likely similar for refrigerators etc. This is pretty small scale though

PSEG also offers a discount on a smart thermostat 1 time.

I believe they discount 2 thermostats per account. I bought one and then another one a while later

That being said I don't like my nest thermostat

Friendly reminder to apply for the 529 program by the 31st, which is a Friday so the deadline is even earlier for frum Jews this year.
(I only know about Maryland so for all I know this doesn't apply to any other states)

Friendly reminder to make your 529 contributions by the end of the month to receive the state contribution (assuming you applied for this year). With Y"T coming up it can easily be forgotten.

At least not in MD. Maybe in other states

Can you collect unemployment while waiting for your licensing?

for 529, what docs do you need to prove a qualified expense? Just a receipt from the school? (for a reimbursement, not a direct pay to the school)

The MD 529 plan doesn’t ask for anything, you just transfer the money and check a checkbox saying its qualified. Save any documentation in case you get audited.

I assume it is but idk if there are details necessary on the receipt

I am pretty sure the school's records of your tuition payment are enough.

Does essential plan enrollment make one eligible for the energy affordability program? (Google and Microsoft's chatbots are giving me different answers)

are you talking about this program?
<https://dps.ny.gov/energy-affordability-program>
if yes then it it is not on list of programs that make you elgible

For some things it seems to be considered Medicaid, hence the question

It goes by percentage above FPL  federel poverty level

*Who is Eligible for Monthly Utility Bill Discounts?*
All large electric and natural gas utilities provide the EAP discount to households that receive a Home Energy Assistance Program (HEAP) benefit, *regardless of fuel or benefit type*. In addition, eligibility for the EAP was expanded to include other public assistance programs available for residents of the NY state and/or NY tribal lands.
*NYS Assistance Programs*
• Home Energy Assistance Program (HEAP)
• Lifeline Telephone Service Program
• Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)
• Medicaid
• Veterans Disability or Survivors Pension
• Supplemental Security Income (SSI)
• Federal Public Housing Assistance
• Utility Guarantee / Direct Vendor programs
• Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)
• Safety Net Assistance


I live in New Jersey, and my wife's company decided to do a restructuring, and change the entity that she works for since January 1st. I'm applying for state disability for her (baby born mid Jan) and I am nervous they're going to reject her since she hasn't been working at the same company for 20 weeks. Any advice?

are you sure she has to work at same company 20 weeks?
 Or just have worked for 20 weeks?

image.png

ChatGPT doesnt think its an issue. It seems to match whats on <https://www.nj.gov/labor/myleavebenefits/worker/tdi/>

I had a baby 2 weeks after switching jobs and had no issues with NJ temp disability. You just need to have _worked_ for 20 weeks as <@U07B4PHLAH3> said.