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This should spice up a boring Wednesday :slightly_...
# cfml-general
b
This should spice up a boring Wednesday šŸ™‚ https://twitter.com/bdw429s/status/1547335166984687617
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z
anyone on HN? upvote šŸ™‚ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32093221
e
I love Lucee!
d
community site is down.
b
@Daniel Mejia The ortus community? It seems to be working for me
d
I was shocked to see .net core c# way up at the top with those micro/concept framworks. Rust doesn't surprise me its up there too.
My brother landed a Delphi job years ago. Delphi is not even on the list. Gonna tell him to into cfml. lol
b
Yeah, the one thing about the techempower benchmarks are there are a freaking TON of super duper tiny microframeworks that tend to dominate the top of the chart if you just view all the data.
It's cool they exist, but no one is building apps in them, because they have no features, lol
You have to dig a bit to find actual analogs for CFML which is going to be the more full stack frameworks
For instance, I could write web "apps" using nothing by JBoss undertow with no servlet and just a pure Java class that rendered back strings of HTML and it would probably perform like mad. But it would also be terrible šŸ˜†
d
yeah
b
I bet @Bruce Kirkpatrick 's custom Lucee builds would be way up there. He's stripped half of the CFML features out and it performs way above stock Lucee, but it also doesn't have half the features!
d
Some comunities are so large though, that there exist an desire to push the edge and thats where innovation happens.
b
Well, we have Bruce in our community. Just sadly, Lucee has never really paid much attention to his optimizations despite my repeated attempts to drive interest internally. šŸ˜•
Micha would never give them the time of day since they were "breaking changes", even though that was throwing the baby out with the bathwater
d
wow thats pretty cool. I bet I only use 10% of all features.
b
Bruce had crazy cool bytecode/hotspot level optimizations he had found that I'm sure lucee could make use if if they really wanted to.
Search the Lucee discourse forum for Bruce's posts. he has 5 or 6 really long posts where he talks at a low level about the sort of stuff he's done to his custom Lucee build and the perf testing he's done on it
We're talking about going from 15,000 requests a second to 200,000 requests a second sort of stuff
Pure servlet frameworks are very fast on tech empower, so I'm not surprised.
I even found several Lucee bottle necks when doing my own testing for techempower. Silly stuff like Lucee checking to see if 
Application.cfc
existed on disk for EVERY SINGLE FREAKING REQUEST even when trusted cache is enabled!
That may only take 500 nano seconds, but you slam the server with 512 concurrent request at 100 CPU and suddenly it's the only thing your server is doing!
d
a simple check but still over kill on every request.
b
I'm fairly sure Micha put in a fix for that. I logged several tickets for lucee and adobe based on my perf testing
nearly all of them were around ā€¢ file system access on every request ā€¢ java locking/syncronized access
That's when I added the servlet path caching in CommandBox-- when I was adding CFML to techempower. That made a huge difference
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d
I'm assuming its huge mountain to climb to even get close to 10,000+ performance scores?
b
Not necessarily. If you look at the other tests like "plain text" you can see CF has much higher throughput, but then again so does everything else
CF ranks lower in the "hello world" sort of tests because it has nominally more overhead
it's the more complex tests that do DB interactions where CF starts to shine
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o
What's the difference between Coldbox CFML and Raw CFML?
b
@Ookma-Kyi The ColdBox one uses.... the ColdBox framework! šŸ™‚
o
@bdw429s How do you do ColdFusion servers without Coldbox? I Googled "Coldfusion" and "Modern ColdFusion with Coldbox" was the very 1st entry...
b
@Ookma-Kyi I'm not sure I understand the nature of your question. CFML is just a langauge you write code in. You start a CF server and run some code and you're using ColdFusion.
ColdBox is an MVC framework you can install into your project to process each HTTP request
You "do ColdFusion servers without ColdBox" by writing an app that doesn't use ColdBox!
That's sort of like asking how do I drive a car without driving a Ford.
You simply pick literally any care in existence that is NOT a Ford. That's how šŸ™‚
This would be true even if you googled "car" and the first picture to come up happened to be a Ford.
e
ColdBox is its own engine, in a sense. Think of it as buying a pre-built meal kit. You have a choice of ACF or Lucee for the filler but it makes you while chewing it wear white gloves and politely reminds you that all things are better by chewing it.
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o
Sorry my fault, I should of been more specific. What I mean is there some way to compare the code used in the tests, specifically the raw CFML vs Coldbox code?
b
Yes, click the link, scroll down to the last sentence in the post, and you'll find a link to the actual Git repo where all the code lives.
@Ookma-Kyi
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