I posted this two weeks ago. It's still open and very few have applied. Those that have saw it on Indeed. Is it the salary? Is it because of the prospect of having to work on old code? I'm just curious!

I'm retiring and this is the link to the posting for my job. http://jobs.ornl.gov/job/Oak-Ridge-Systems-Engineer-and-Software-Developer-TN-37830/923356000/ I was told $102,144- $132,190 based on education and experience. No remote option, I think there is relocation assistance. This is the facility (A very cool place to work): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Flux_Isotope_Reactor Good benefits and a pension at age 65! Very low stress and great people (hey it's government work). You'd inherit 23 years of ColdFusion code to maintain and opportunity to develop new apps. One coworker who is a CF developer, also with 23 years experience. I'd have a chance to bring you up to speed before I leave and he'd be there to help after I leave. Use the link to apply and email me if you have questions atomiccodemonkey@gmail.com and want off the record answers that ORNL can't be held to.

no remote option for a cf dev job 30 minutes outside of ... knoxville? that seems like a hurdle

Yea I would bet its the no remote option; if its negotiable in that realm I would bet many more would apply.

Lol, I didn't think of that because I am remote. They just aren't allowing it anymore. The lab director is changing so maybe that will change too.

I'd also just check to see where else it's posted besides a .gov site

I figured this was the best place. I know it is on Indeed, other than that I don't know.

No remote. That's a big part. You are relying on finding other CFML devs right in the same area you're in. Do you know many? Is there a CFUG there? If you allowed remote you'd get a ton more inquiries. Also, with all due respect, it is unlikely anyone would move to TN for a 100k CF job when there are remote CF jobs paying more around. You're asking for a mid-level CF dev (5 years +). Also, just saw the requirement is a Bachelor's degree? Underpriced salary, no remote, government job requiring a degree doing CFML & VBA & Perl? (And I realize it says "combo of ed/ex" but then you're asking a senior to move to TN for $100k). Incredibly tough ask.

Thanks. I'll pass this along. I agree on the remote thing, wish I had control of it.

"Underpriced salary, no remote, government job requiring a degree" - got 20 yrs of CFML, 2 degrees, no problem with legacy code, and I'd apply, BUT... if given H1B visa 🙂 Alas, no one care to sponsor it nowadays. Still would not get security clearance, I think 🙂

Thanks. You're right about the Visa.

+1 for no remote option. it's hard to relocate nowadays with the housing market the way it is. plus the education.. i have 23 years of cf experience without a college degree. they didn't even offer web programming when i went (the little bit i finished)

Unfortunately national labs place a lot of emphasis on that degree check mark. If you get hired without it, it's impossible to advance. It's some old school thinking. Want to be a group lead? Better have a masters.

It's 2022. It's Covid. No remote = no interest.

Definitely a shake-up needed, but its tough if you're just an employee there with no way to "manage up". To be fair, Intel used to be this way 20 years ago. I applied there & they refused to even look at my resume because of a lack of a degree (and they required a CSE degree). To no one's surprise, that requirement was lifted not all that long after, as even they realized that app devs come from all places, and so called "soft skills" were often more useful than knowing which sorting algorithm to choose in an interview.

And CFML job posting pet peeve #1 - spell it correctly 🙂 "Experience with cold fusion,"

I told them over and over that it was misspelled.

I am also struggling to find an onsite developer with alot of experience. I am trying to help a company employ their first developer. Do you think $125000 - $155000 is an underpriced salary? (Houston Area)

i would think you'd have good luck in the houston area. that's becoming a tech headquarters for the southeast. i know there's already several cf shops in that area from what i've seen on the job boards.

Yeah, not many bites. The folks that applied are all looking for remote work. Times are a changing.

i can see that being the case. commuting to work is becoming a thing of the past in the programming realm. especially since covid.

@Ryan Albrecht that is a solid salary, and I would imagine the Houston area would have at least a few CF devs. Have you posted that on LinkedIn and the FB CFML Programmers group? I will say, onsite it tough. Personally, I would never work onsite again. Not full time anyhow. I'll be working a day at Adobe HQ later this month and I'm super excited, but I'd never want to always be there.

The requirement for a degree in so many IT jobs is just ridiculous -- I wish companies would get over their bad selves about it. I've fought HR departments at several places over the degree issue when I've been hiring: if you're asking for 5+ years work experience, the degree is irrelevant at that point. And, yeah, that location with no remote option is going to be a killer, unfortunately. I've been pretty much 100% remote for over 15 years and would never go back to on-site, except perhaps one or two days a week if the commute was really easy (and in the Bay Area, CA, no commute is "easy" 🙂 )

@Ryan Albrecht Wish the H1 visa sponsorship for CF devs begins soon and candidates like myself having enough exp. in CF but no CF dev jobs in Indian market, can start applying in jobs like you mentioned. Love the place, Houston and wish to immigrate there again if ever I get an opportunity. Remote work from India with an overlap of 3-4 hrs with EST is also an option which very few US companies having non-CF work allow.

I agree with @seancorfield on the degree requirements.... In my experience, some of the best developers I have worked with had no degree or a degree that was completely unrelated to software engineering... and I have also seen many developers who had the degrees and were not any good at programming at all. (And Vice Versa of course). 5+ years of experience with a proven record of success is a much better indicator.

Based on these comments they have removed the degree requirement (it's there, but says 'Or an equivalent combination of education and experience'). You can get away with no degree if you have enough experience. I've also asked them to strip out some of the bullets that others could do. Thanks for all the feedback!

So its for an actual gov gig not some c2c sub contract hellscape?

UT-Battelle is the prime contractor for the department of energy. They have the contract to run Oak Ridge National Laboratory. So W-2 employee along with about 5000 others.

Sorry, contractor hell. Been there, done that, have the sticker to prove it

I'm in Nashville and currently hold a DoD Clearance, and I've seen this posting a couple of times. Been doing CF since 1999, but most of last 10 years have been database, and am currently a DBA and only doing hobby CF dev. But I wouldn't mind coming back into working as a CF dev. Really the main thing that has kept me from applying is the lack of remote.