@Mark Takata (Adobe) Apologies for poking you again about this sort of stuff, but what's the official policy about Java 11.0.20, and where is that documentated? Are we left to @carehart's blog posts to figure out how to not bork CF update downloads and installs if we update to 11.0.20? No statement from Adobe? Will CF be updated at some point to fix this issue? At a more basic level, are there pressing reasons to update from 11.0.19 to 11.0.20? Even if we don't see pressing reasons to update java beyond 11.0.19 now, eventually we will need to move to some future Java version, and this issue will just come back, so it seems like Adobe either needs to fix the incompatibility, of document clearly what we need to do to work around it. Thank you.

Dave, while I realize you will still want to hear from Adobe (and I don't mean to short-circuit their replying), I do want to point out they HAVE offered at least some official acknowledgement of the current state of things. I noticed last week they had updated the most release technotes to clarify the need to use the command-line install with that new jvm arg for installing CF updates (downloading them from the CF Admin works fine since mid-August). See the box at the top of the one for CF2021 update 10 and the one for CF2021 update 4. They've not gone back and edited the earlier ones (FWIW), and it's possible they may not keep later ones updated. But like you, I hope instead they will implement some more complete solution, so those who want to install via the CF Admin can. Then there's still the question of whether folks who may implement that 11.0.20 (for cf2021, or 17.0.8 for cf2023) may want to ALSO implement that new jvm arg for any OTHER reason. To your asking if there are pressing reasons to update beyond 11.0.19, well, every JVM update offers big fixes and security updates. And even the Adobe Security Bulletins for CF implore the importance of being on the latest available JVM minor update (for the JVM major update that your CF supports). Again, I know you want to hear things from Adobe instead. I just offer this as one new clarification for you (about the technotes having been updated to address this some) , as well as for those perhaps not following along with it all, including my post from August that they point to (which I have kept updated).

Thanks Charlie, that is more complete info than I'd seen from them. I guess this piece in the 20221 Update 10 notes:

As a workaround, if you using the above JDK

...refers to 11.0.20, even though it's not mentioned on that page? And the java arg for the install is only needed if you've already updated to .20?

Their wording is generic as to the jvm update being that one from July, which covers both the updates to Java 11 and 17. It's true that for now only cf2023 supports the latter, so they COULD have listed the specific Java versions, but they did not.

Hold on, I bugged folks to document it somewhere and I thought they did. @Bagish Mishra / @saghosh where did we put that official statement about Java version support that is outside the shipped and/or certified versions?

That's on the 3rd party installer page on https://helpx.adobe.com/coldfusion/kb/coldfusion-downloads.html#downloads3

@Dave Merrill does that cover you?

Well, even that new verbiage doesn't clarify what specific updates ARE supported (or to use your words, Mark, "certified"). That will remain a rub, beyond this July update issue. Maybe instead the words should clarify that until you add the installer for a given JVM update it should NOT yet be considered "supported". That would help deflect when people complain that it "takes too long" for a new JVM update's installers to appear on that page.

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um... that doesn't answer the question at all. 🙂 the current issue is that if you install the supported version 11.0.20 (in order to clear security VITs) then you can no longer update CF 2021 via the CF admin tool. when will that get fixed?

It is indeed nice to see that page was also cleaned up finally to TRULY offer only the latest 2 minor updates per major update. It was a mish-mash of a few or more updates per jvm, until then. Nice also to see it clarify how for now those on cf2021 should use only 11, and those on 2023 should use 17.

That's not my confusion, it's about the java arg we now need for update installs once 11.0.20 is installed. That's covered on the Update 10 page, but I kinda thought, that was a temporary workaround, not The New Way.

ah. sorry. i didn't understand your question properly.

@carehart @Dave Merrill @Mark Takata (Adobe) Thank you for your help. Is there anything else you'd suggest updating the tech notes regarding the Java versions?

well, yes. the question of whether that new jvm arg is needed in CF beyond the use at the cli to run the installer. As I discuss in my blog post from Aug (when all this came out), even folks running other Java apps (nothing to do with CF) are hitting various problems, solved with that jvm arg. Here's a link to the section within my post where I observe and link to those.

1. A line about the Java arg requirement that is needed right now (unless it is there and I am missing it) 2. Can we actually LIST the available supported Java Versions in the little box on the initial page? Having to click through, THEN choose 3rd party installers, THEN scroll is a bit tedious and poor DX/UX

Thanks Mark and Charlie.

I also sent an email to engineering leadership to try to get a bit of transparency on timing. I'm like... 99.9% sure we're removing that workaround in an upcoming actual real deal update. I just want to make sure we can give you a meaningful timeline.

@Mark Takata (Adobe) in your summary above with the 2 points, I just want to note that it could be read as still only addressing the need of using that new JVM arg for installing CF updates. I just want to make sure you saw my note above it where I wondered if you could confirm whether we CF folks have any OTHER need to use that new jvm arg (disableZip64ExtraFieldValidation) in the CF startup args to prevent OTHER issues which may arise from our switching CF to use that new JVM. I had shared a link there to the section of my blog post where OTHER vendors/maintainers are reporting hitting issues that require use of that new arg. My fear is that CF folks may already be hitting some, and more may as adoption of that new JVM update increases. I'm hoping you guys can confirm either way.

Appreciate your inquiry on timing, Mark. Even though the bug https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/CF-4218719 is marked as "To Fix", history has shown that could still mean months or years.